Will Brexit happen?

Takedap

LHW99 wrote: »

A50 was triggered because there was a majority. Having another referendum vote, whichever way the small majority goes won't provide a resolution. A GE might - either because BJ manages to delay it until November so we leave by default, or because one side or other is elected with a workable parliamentary majority - and that's not guaranteed.

Maybe A50 was triggered because it was supposed to be the start of a 2 year window in which we agreed the terms of the withdrawal.
Maybe MPs believed that the 2 year window was sufficient because they had been told that we hold all the cards, that a deal would be the easiest in human history or that the world would be beating a path to our door to make trade deals.
All blatant lies by the Leave campaign, some of whom have been !!!!!ing for nearly 40 years so they should have had a plan for what they wanted to do. But they didn't.

lvader

It's irrelevant, the 2 years is decided by EU law.

Herzlos

lvader wrote: »

It's irrelevant, the 2 years is decided by EU law.

Which we knew about in advance, since we were involved in writing the law. It was written by a British chap called Lord Kerr. British Diplomat for nearly 40 years, now sitting in the House of Lords.


Or did we get that forced on us too?

Zero_Gravitas

Well, it was difficult hear what the liar Boris Johnson was saying in Downing Street just now, such is the voice of opposition to his anti-democratic position; but because I could see his lips moving, it’s pretty certain he was lying.

Entertainingly, this a quote from the BBC reporting of the statement

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-49557734:

Posted at 18:1518:15

PM: 'I will not ask Brussels for a delay'

Mr Johnson continues: "I say, to show our friends in Brussels that we are untied in our purpose, MPs should vote with the government against Corbyn's pointless delay.

"I want everyone to know there are no circumstances under which I would ask Brussels for a delay."

Untied perhaps - unhinged certainly.

adindas

Takedap wrote: »

Bringing a loaded gun to a negotiating table can be a very useful technique.
However it's much less effective if the only threat is to shoot yourself in the head just so your opponent gets blood on his shoes.

I do not think UK current position could be seen as loaded a gun.
You might still remember the way the EU negotiate under TM. It started from the negotiation order "Money First", if not trade negotiation will not start. Keep in mind negotiation order is not on the treaty.

They are using intimidation (power), bullying to achieve their goal. TM who has begging mentality thought she could get through using begging approach, where did she end up ?? She almost turn this country to become a vassal state of Europe. From the start of negotiation until now EU has got almost all what they need apart from signing the final deal, UK has not got anything substantial in return.

God saves the UK in the last minutes, her deal are rejected three times in the parliament and she finally need to resign.

Now, EU does not want to budge from their current stance, which will keep UK for indefinite period until EU say otherwise. All of that without UK has any voice. Again they keep using intimidation bullying techniques pointing out to damage to UK economy, disruption. They will not start negotating future trade if UK refure to sign the final withdrwal deal.

Also offering something unilaterally to the EU, hoping th EU will return the favour does not work with the EU. For instance in citizen right.

This is what Steven Barclays Said

“EU leaders repeatedly tell me how important citizens’ rights are to them but not only has the Commission refused to agree a specific deal on citizens’ rights – as requested by all political parties in the UK Parliament - the offer here in France falls short of what we have set out in the UK in several respects.

or example here in France UK Nationals must apply for a new residence permit within six months of exit day. We would call on the French to extend that period, particularly as French citizens in the UK have until the end of 2020 to apply to the EU Settlement Scheme.

“And while we have waived the fee for EU citizens to register in the UK, the cost of the residence permit in France is €119.

“We have guaranteed the rights of the approximately 300,000 French nationals and indeed all EU nationals living in the UK.

“I call on the French government and others in the EU to match our offer and provide certainty for UK nationals in France.”

In your own negotiation, do you accept a negotiation like this?? They will only negotiate what you have more interest if they have got all they need first leaving you with no more leverage / power to negotiate to have a good deal. You will need to keep paying, you do not have any right to say anything even it will harm you.

It is only a mafioso type organisation will negotiate like this. So no-deal brexit is absolutely the right decision.

Spy_Key

Zero_Gravitas wrote: »

Untied perhaps - unhinged certainly.

Are you?
Never mind, maybe you'll feel better after a good sleep.
As far as Boris is concerned, well it's no surprise that remainers are squawking when at last there is someone in power who is both pro-Brexit and who has the courage of their conviction to press forward with leaving the EU.

Zero_Gravitas

Spy_Key wrote: »

As far as Boris is concerned, well it's no surprise that remainers are squawking when at last there is someone in power who is both pro-Brexit and who has the courage of their conviction to press forward with leaving the EU.

Except it’s actually his chum Dominic playing Boris like a ventriloquist’s dummy.

I thought that’s one of the things leavers wanted to get away from - unelected bureaucrats telling our politicians what to do...

buglawton

phillw wrote: »

Unless the EU forced us to build HS2 and didn't just say "hey we've got a great idea" then leaving the EU doesn't change anything.

Unless you're lying about wanting to have ties to Europe post brexit, which wouldn't surprise me.

What offends you the most that the idea was from a french man or was it just because he wasn't from the UK? How would you have felt if it was an English man, Welsh Man, Scots Man, or NI Man?

Why does it even matter?

AFAIK the EU isn't paying for that trophy HS2, the British taxpayer is.

adindas

Zero_Gravitas wrote: »

Except it’s actually his chum Dominic playing Boris like a ventriloquist’s dummy.

I thought that’s one of the things leavers wanted to get away from - unelected bureaucrats telling our politicians what to do...

[FONT=&quot]Dominic Cummings advice is advisory basis and he has no power at all to impose his advice. In fact, Boris Johnson could ignore Dominic Cummings advice completely if he thinks the advice is unfounded.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Also, Boris Johnson is not a type of person who could be fooled easily. What Boris Johnson sees for the reason of UK stance for no-deal Brexit is what people who ever negotiate in their life should be able to see after looking into the way EU negotiate which is actually using bullying and intimidation tools (Post #706)[/FONT]

buglawton

The way the EU has(nt) negotiated will go down in history. It hasn't had any practice! It's never had to deal with a serious negotiation between itself and a comparable nation. So it's approach has been hugely clumsy. At first sight, bully-boy tactics may have seemed by its leadership as the rational approach. But it was a totally presumptuous stance that left out the human factor. Chickens coming home to roost right now.