Will Brexit happen?

Moby

Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »

They're not doing their jobs. Their job is to respect the referendum. They are trying to frustrate it.

I doubt very much there was a majority to leave the EU without a deal. Even Farage said we'd get a deal during the campaign.

Takedap

Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »

They're not doing their jobs. Their job is to respect the referendum. They are trying to frustrate it.

Their job is to do what's best for the country.


If a lot of people decide to commit suicide, it doesn't automatically become the right thing to do.


If they truly believe that Brexit is an act of national self-harm, it is their duty to say so, even if it eventually costs them their jobs.

phillw

Fran_Klee wrote: »

If you don't want the deal on offer but you've already agreed we will leave, there is only one option left.

Well it depends on how honest you think Boris is being with the negotiations.

Theresa May ran down the clock and wasted negotiation hoping to force through the deal that met her red lines.
Boris is running down the clock hoping to force through no deal because of his red lines.

Parliament is just trying to protect the interests of the country.

If either PM hadn't treated Parliament with contempt then we might be in a different position.

I think Parliament were naive to trust TM, by voting for A50. But I don't see why that means it's the only choice.

Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »

They're not doing their jobs. Their job is to respect the referendum. They are trying to frustrate it.

That is not their job. Boris is trying to prevent them doing their job.

buglawton

Herzlos wrote: »

Can you quote the lines that back up your assertion? You seem to keep posting the same copy and paste list of links, none of which seem to agree with your claims about the eu getting scared.

Adindas posted new links saying much the same thing - evidence of an EU leadership nervousness and softening of stance.

OK so let's stick to facts based evidence. I'll only believe the EU leadership is getting fearful if within the next 2 weeks they 'magically' find a way to postpone their own 31st Oct deadline. The one that Macron previously said would never be extended. Yes, that one.

Moe_The_Bartender

buglawton wrote: »

Adindas posted new links saying much the same thing - evidence of an EU leadership nervousness and softening of stance.

OK so let's stick to facts based evidence. I'll only believe the EU leadership is getting fearful if within the next 2 weeks they 'magically' find a way to postpone their own 31st Oct deadline. The one that Macron previously said would never be extended. Yes, that one.

There are a few reasons why the EU might want to postpone the deadline but in the end, it’s up to the UK to request an extension. For once, they are on the back foot. Blinking first is a new experience for them. Unless of course, they are just playing games with the encouragement of the remain camp.

lisyloo

buglawton wrote: »

Adindas posted new links saying much the same thing - evidence of an EU leadership nervousness and softening of stance.

No softening on the backstop.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49540681

buglawton

And of course I was referring to an extension.
So Macron is signalling an (unasked for) extension to Oct 31st
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/30/eu-wants-extend-article-50-avoid-no-deal-brexit-eurosceptics/

Macron one thing, Barnier another. Are they trying to play 'good cop, bad cop'?

adindas

[FONT=&quot]Just to remind, in the past discussion there are reasonable number of remoaners keep saying that UK could not effort the no-deal Brexit. But now changing 180 direction criticizing the suspension of the parliament which could be seen that UK is determined to exit EU without the deal if EU does not want to change the current controversial WA. Also, it is senseless argument because if Ireland which will be in much worse situation could take it, let alone UK which is much better prepared than Ireland.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Keep in mind why it is absolutely the right decision for a no-deal Brexit if EU does not want to change their stance about the WA and Irish back stop .[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]- It would mean the UK will become a vassal state subject to rulings from the ECJ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- It would hand over trade policy with no democratic accountability. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- The UK would become the EU cash cow give some £30bn of taxpayers’ money without getting any agreement over the long-term trading relationship. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- All of that without UK having any voice or any right to influence the decision. it is by far worst negotiation ever in the history.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- The current contravesial WA have been voted down three times by [/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]the parliment [/FONT][/FONT]

So in no deal brexit blame the EU not the UK.

If his effort is successful Boris might be remembered and written in the history as a hero who prevent this country to become a vassal state. TM is enterily the opposite. There is already evindece to this as she has been voted as the worst PM.

[FONT=&quot]There might still people who are not awere of the back ground of those hardliners, who currenlty some of them preventing a no-deal Brexit. They are the people who voted to trigger article 50 where the chance to reverse Brexit is on their hand [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/article-50-parliament-mps-vote-brexit-theresa-may-eu-negotiations-labour-conservative-how-voted-a7558291.html[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]A few to name :[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Heidi Allen (Conservative - South Cambridgeshire)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Anna Soubry (Conservative - Broxtowe)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mr Chuka Umunna (Labour - Streatham) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mr Philip Hammond (Conservative - Runnymede and Weybridge) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yvette Cooper (Labour - Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jeremy Corbyn (Labour - Islington North) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mr Dominic Grieve (Conservative - Beaconsfield) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mr George Osborne (Conservative - Tatton) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mr David Gauke (Conservative - South West Hertfordshire)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Keir Starmer (Labour - Holborn and St Pancras) [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If you remove of the threat of no-deal what leverage left for UK to negotiate???????[/FONT]

Thrugelmir

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

There are a few reasons why the EU might want to postpone the deadline but in the end, it’s up to the UK to request an extension. For once, they are on the back foot. Blinking first is a new experience for them. Unless of course, they are just playing games with the encouragement of the remain camp.

The EU fudges issues. As getting 100% agreement on any issue is nigh impossible.

Takedap

adindas wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]If you remove of the threat of no-deal what leverage left for UK to negotiate???????[/FONT]

Bringing a loaded gun to a negotiating table can be a very useful technique.
However it's much less effective if the only threat is to shoot yourself in the head just so your opponent gets blood on his shoes.