Will Brexit happen?

Green_Bear

maxie014 wrote: »

You said it!
And some of the posts about the "working class" sounds a bit like david attenborough talking about some kind of monkey species at times.

Those who sell their labour and have little or no income producing assets?

ie those who lose from a weaker pound?

Advice4sue

I agree with you Phillw-

Hope my last post made sense as i can’t quote properly and was frustrated at how my comment had been used!
I can’t even do a sad face or happy face lol

Thrugelmir

Green_Bear wrote: »

ie those who lose from a weaker pound?

All we need do is raise interest rates.

Everyone has an income producing asset , themselves. Human capital generates wealth.

The UK isn't productive as other countries though.

phillw

Green_Bear wrote: »

Those who sell their labour and have little or no income producing assets?

The definition is kinda vague, one definition I found is that working class are people who are salaried to "work with their hands".

Suggesting If you are self employed then you are no longer working class.

Malthusian

phillw wrote: »

I think that is unlikely. Someone rich will buy them up cheap as a long term investment as no doubt some money in the right hands and you'll eventually be allowed to build on the land.

Most agricultural land is worthless for building on. Very few people want to live in the middle of nowhere surrounded by the smell of slurry. Land that would be good for housing if you can get planning permission is already being bought cheap.

If the consequence of Brexit is that farms are taken over by big businesses and continue to farm, then that's a shame for the small farmers that get driven out of their business, but it merely continues a process that has been going on for decades. A big agricultural company producing the same food that a small one used to will not cause the famine that Remainers are hoping and prepping for.

If you're referring to the so called "project fear" then that wasn't deliberate dishonesty, those were predictions based on what would happen if an honest government were in control. That hasn't happened since the referendum.

So an "honest" government would have inflicted recession, mass unemployment, a stockmarket crash, unnecessary tax rises and genuine swingeing cuts to public services on its population.

I have to agree with the "getting more surreal" thing.

phillw

Malthusian wrote: »

So an "honest" government would have inflicted recession, mass unemployment, a stockmarket crash, unnecessary tax rises and genuine swingeing cuts to public services on its population.

I have to agree with the "getting more surreal" thing.

An honest government wouldn't have swept reality under the carpet.

If we leave without a deal then reality will snap back pretty quickly.

If you think that is surreal then I worry about how you will cope.

Malthusian

phillw wrote: »

The definition is kinda vague, one definition I found is that working class are people who are salaried to "work with their hands".

Suggesting If you are self employed then you are no longer working class.

That's a rubbish definition. Only a particularly arrogant middle-class person could assert that only the middle-class are allowed to be self-employed. A self-employed working-class plumber or taxi driver is working-class.

Class is a tribal identity, it is defined by how you perceive yourself and how others perceive you. It's only indirectly correlated with income or industry.

phillw wrote: »

An honest government wouldn't have swept reality under the carpet.

If we leave without a deal then reality will snap back pretty quickly.

Nah. Reality will continue to lie to you. And Remainers will say that reality will snap back when the Government stops paying post-Brexit transition subsidies, or when new trade agreements kick in and the US floods us with chlorinated chicken, or something else, just you wait. Disaster will always be just round the corner. Spam tomorrow and Spam yesterday but never Spam today. They haven't questioned their beliefs yet so there's no particular reason they'll start now.

Conina

Advice4sue wrote: »

“
Are we still discussing Brexit? .........Some posts seem rather surreal
Originally posted by Advice4sue
”


‘What do you expect when there is so much deliberate dishonesty but you're right; all this nonsense talk of millions of jobs lost and emergency budgets, even war just for voting leave did turn out to be the surreal rubbish that we thought it was.’ - originally posted by Conina

Oh dear..... Apologies for my initial post , I seem to have made the mistake of trying to add some lightness here and a genuine question as to the relevance of some posts.... but you have taken it as agreeing with you ��.

The fact is Nobody knows what will definitely happen after Brexit whereas whether or not you liked the EU, we knew where we were. Don’t say remainers fears are rubbish, because as of yet you have no proof either way

Now if only we could persuade those of whatever stance that nobody knows what will definitely happen post-Brexit instead of their blind acceptance of either impending disaster or (as I've seen some diehard remainers phrase it) sunlit uplands you might get somewhere but the reality is that far too many on both sides are either unwilling or unable to accept the truth.

Which is that post-Brexit the sun will still rise each morning and by far the majority of us will continue in our daily routines unhindered.

What rankles is the devious manner in which those that disagreed with the outcome of a referendum have sought to completely ignore the result and - worse - refuse to implement the result which was to leave the EU.

The latest ComRes poll says that 54% of all respondents, either pro-Brexit or pro-remain, want Brexit to be delivered and the will of the people to be observed and only 29% saying that Brexit should be postponed until January; UK politicians take note.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/10/britons-want-brexit-referendum-respected-poll-reveals-public/

phillw

Malthusian wrote: »

That's a rubbish definition. Only a particularly arrogant middle-class person could assert that only the middle-class are allowed to be self-employed. A self-employed working-class plumber or taxi driver is working-class.

Only an arrogant person would twist what I said. I didn't say that only middle class are allowed to be self employed, only that the class system is too limited in scope to cope with the way workers have evolved.

The gig economy means you can be driving a taxi, delivery fast food and own your own consulting company.

Malthusian wrote: »

And Remainers will say that reality will snap back when the Government stops paying post-Brexit transition subsidies, or when new trade agreements kick in and the US floods us with chlorinated chicken, or something else, just you wait. Disaster will always be just round the corner. Spam tomorrow and Spam yesterday but never Spam today. They haven't questioned their beliefs yet so there's no particular reason they'll start now.

If there is proof of either of us not questioning our beliefs, then that accusation falls further on you than me.

I don't eat chicken, so it doesn't affect me. But it will affect chicken farmers. You might not care about them, that is up to you.

Paying our membership fee for the single market is a cost saving, so it goes without saying that we lose that advantage when we stop paying it. We also have to pay the full cost of regulatory agencies that we have outsourced to.

These are realities that you are refusing to acknowledge because it would make you feel bad. If you can't cope with the complexities of the issues then there is no point in you giving out your pointless opinions.

Blue_Doggy

Malthusian wrote: »

Most agricultural land is worthless for building on. Very few people want to live in the middle of nowhere surrounded by the smell of slurry. Land that would be good for housing if you can get planning permission is already being bought cheap.

If the consequence of Brexit is that farms are taken over by big businesses and continue to farm, then that's a shame for the small farmers that get driven out of their business, but it merely continues a process that has been going on for decades. A big agricultural company producing the same food that a small one used to will not cause the famine that Remainers are hoping and prepping for.

So an "honest" government would have inflicted recession, mass unemployment, a stockmarket crash, unnecessary tax rises and genuine swingeing cuts to public services on its population.

I have to agree with the "getting more surreal" thing.

I must disagree about the value of agricultural land for housing development. That may be so for the moors and uplands of the west and north, but here in the south many farms have already been sold and covered with houses. In Hampshire, for example, the whole south of the county, which used to be good farmland and market gardens (horticulture), is being built on between the West Sussex border and the New Forest National Park, and as far north as Winchester and the South Downs National Park.

No food being grown there.

And Mr Dyson the vacuum cleaner man is a big owner of agricultural land...