Will Brexit happen?

Green_Bear

westernpromise wrote: »

Whoever was prepared to work the cheapest. Ex slave, poor local whites - the lowest bidder got the tender.

Exactly.
So not all the slaves were instantly unemployed then, were they?
Because they either carried on picking cotton for a wage, or took a job previously performed by a white person.
Or did a new job that didn't previously exist (eg looking after fellow ex-slaves wages for them).

Advice4sue

Are we still discussing Brexit? .........Some posts seem rather surreal

maxie014

Advice4sue wrote: »

Are we still discussing Brexit? .........Some posts seem rather surreal

You said it!
And some of the posts about the "working class" sounds a bit like david attenborough talking about some kind of monkey species at times.

Green_Bear

Filo25 wrote: »

Seems to be some talk that the Northern Ireland only backstop may get looked at again (as opposed to the UK-wide one).

Honestly I'm pretty sure that is where we would already have ended up if May hadn't messed up the General election in 2017 so badly

Maybe Johnson is planning to ignore the DUP and put a ''border down the Irish Sea'' ??

The problem is, the loyalists can cause just as much trouble as the republicans. They weren't happy with the Anglo-Irish agreement.

Thrugelmir

Green_Bear wrote: »

Maybe Johnson is planning to ignore the DUP and put a ''border down the Irish Sea'' ??

The problem is, the loyalists can cause just as much trouble as the republicans. They weren't happy with the Anglo-Irish agreement.

DUP seem happy with whatever he is proposing.

Green_Bear

Thrugelmir wrote: »

DUP seem happy with whatever he is proposing.

Maybe Mark Carney got his magic laptop out again?

Free drinks all round in the Orange Lodge..!?

Sailtheworld

Thrugelmir wrote: »

DUP seem happy with whatever he is proposing.

Yes, remove the need for a backstop by implementing the backstop now. So much for the EU caving in.

The DUP/ Boris blinked first - wonder how much Boris had to pay.

AndyCF

A question regarding a part of the agriculture sector please.

Background first: I want to say this is an honest question, I'm not attempting to 'take the we wee' with it, my previous generation family was involved in farming but not myself.

The question relates to fruit / veg picking really. I have seen on occasion on the news companies and individuals saying they are going to be in trouble if EU workers they employ leave as they won't be able to get staff to do the picking...

My questions:

Why should this be an issue because those already here have rights to stay unless one or more of the following are true:

1. They are here without any permission aka 'unknown' people
2. They are here after their paperworks expired
3. They are here but without any work rights or with perms to stay on the condition they do not seek or take work

4. They are being paid well below the min wage possibly by piece rates -without- a min per hour sum - "unscrupulous employer" syndrome perhaps

If its paying min wage or more (and legally it must yes?) then I cannot really see a huge problem in obtaining some workforce for it, unless the conditions are so bad that not many would want to do it, that would suggest that either conditions need to change (employer making some adjustments perhaps) or the monies increasing (employer either absorbing the costs or increasing the product cost)

I'm not aware of how much profits / lack of there are in the fruit picking type sectors these days, so I cannot say if its greedy employers (does not seem likely generally most farmers I've met are really nice people generally) or something else.

Anyway if someone could be kind enough to assist with a logical answer it would be appreciated. Just cannot really fathom out why there would be a huge problem once things settle ( ! ) and those legally here would probably or should probably stay for a bit at least.

phillw

Cakeguts wrote: »

The EU has said that there won't be an extension so we will leave on 31st October.

Who have they said that to? I haven't seen any reports of them making that statement.

Are you in direct negotiations with them?

The petition debate on proroguing parliament was interesting, there are a couple of bills that were excluded from the copy & pasting of eu laws into uk laws. Those bills disappeared earlier in the year because the government were scared of amendments. If we leave without a deal on the 31st then there are quite a wide range of areas that will actually have no laws in place.

AndyCF wrote: »

I'm not aware of how much profits / lack of there are in the fruit picking type sectors these days, so I cannot say if its greedy employers (does not seem likely generally most farmers I've met are really nice people generally) or something else.

People want cheap products in the shops, super markets give it to them by squeezing the farmers.

People don't want to live close enough to/on a farm where they can then do the fruit picking and aren't motivated enough to gain the skill necessary to pick quick enough and without causing damage to the product.

There also isn't enough work in one season to support you through the rest of the year. Therefore the pickers tend to go to different countries or different parts of countries for each picking season. As you aren't in one place for very long, you would tend to move as a group.

Trying to employ pickers from the UK, who only work in the UK (because working outside the UK is going to become much much harder) while only selling to the UK (because of import tariffs being placed on us) would put the farmers out of business. Especially if the government goes through with setting import tariffs to zero.

Advice4sue

AndyCF - sorry I can’t quote on my iPhone. (If anyone can tell me how that would be great!).
But you raise a good question re alternative workers which perhaps only such a farmer/agency could answer with complete accuracy.
But in my daughters experience working in the fields during her summer break from uni, she was employed by an agency. She did receive minimum wage (thanks to EU regs). But the work was physically very hard and repetitive and no other English were prepared to do it. She was the only English person on their books. I still think it would be an issue for the employers to get the staff especially if we crash out without a deal. Many of those type of workers are not fully settled here and are more transient.
We do have lots of EU citizens who have settled and bought houses etc and contribute to the economy but they tend to be in different types of work. However they undoubtedly feel uncertain about whether they want to stay anyway.