Will Brexit happen?

Malthusian

Nobody cares about the Working Time Directive. We have full employment and if you're currently working in a job that flogs you for 60 hours a week, you can pack it in and get a less demanding one. Naturally it will probably pay you less but the EU isn't going to change that.

Perhaps Remain should have rounded up some junior doctors and got them to front an ad campaign to say "Please vote Remain, otherwise the Tories might abolish the Working Time Directive and we might have to work more than 48 hours per week."

I assumed Herzlos was referring to meaningful work and environmental regulation, i.e. regulation that has an effect other than requiring some people to opt out of it.

Herzlos

Malthusian wrote: »

I assumed Herzlos was referring to meaningful work and environmental regulation, i.e. regulation that has an effect other than requiring some people to opt out of it.

Yeah I'm talking about sick pay, maternity pay, breaks, health and safety, emissions, pollution and so on.


No-one cares about the WTD, since almost every seems to be forced to opt out to get a job anyway.

Advice4sue

Leavers seem to be getting very tetchy and defensive on here!
But then I get very frustrated at the comments which suggest Remainers can’t accept they were on the losing side. Of course we accept we lost! We will be leaving the EU. And quite frankly I just want us to get it over with now.
But I’m 100% sure there would still have been strong feeling had the result been in reverse because whether you like to admit it or not, it was a close result overall.
But because it was so close and the impact could potentially be huge as we are about to leap into the unknown, is it not surprising that remainers are still vocal? I can’t understand why anyone wouldn’t be concerned, even if they ideally do want to leave.
I realise most Leavers probably carefully thought out their vote and no doubt had their good reasons but some baffled me. Here in rural east England, the leave vote won by a massive majority because many locals voted to leave because they don’t like the high volume of immigration here from Eastern Europe. I’m sorry but it’s that simple. I heard it repeatedly. I knew several people personally that have never voted in any type election but they chose to vote in the referendum because of immigration. I’m afraid economics, EU laws etc didn’t even come into it.
They had no thought to the huge numbers of EU nationals needed by the local economy to work in the factories and fields. I do hope they don’t go ‘home’ on mass, because who would do the work?
During a recent summer holiday whilst home from uni my daughter worked packing on a conveyor belt out in the fields. She was the only English person prepared to do it. All her go workers were from Eastern Europe.
So who will do that type of work if the locals here got their way and they all left after Brexit? I’m genuinely curious.
If anyone is about to say ‘we managed before’ please don’t bother. It’s a different world and few locals would do field work.

Thrugelmir

Advice4sue wrote: »

So who will do that type of work if the locals here got their way and they all left after Brexit? I’m genuinely curious.

Specific requirements can be managed. The Eastern Europeans are highly organised, gangmasters etc, not as if people wander over to the UK in the hope of finding some picking work on the off chance.

More concerning is the treatment of people in car washes , takeaways etc. There's a world hidden from view.

As for forced Labour. Take a look into tomato pickers in Italy. Shocking.

Green_Bear

Advice4sue wrote: »

Leavers seem to be getting very tetchy and defensive on here!

They had no thought to the huge numbers of EU nationals needed by the local economy to work in the factories and fields. I do hope they don’t go ‘home’ on mass, because who would do the work?
During a recent summer holiday whilst home from uni my daughter worked packing on a conveyor belt out in the fields. She was the only English person prepared to do it. All her go workers were from Eastern Europe.
So who will do that type of work if the locals here got their way and they all left after Brexit? I’m genuinely curious.
If anyone is about to say ‘we managed before’ please don’t bother. It’s a different world and few locals would do field work.

Probably a combination of:
1. Machines to replace human labour
2. Wages rise - local labour employed and product costs rise
3. Visas issued for Third World immigrants to replace EU staff.
4. Farms and factories re-locate to countries with cheaper labour - food imported to UK.

I'd bet mainly on number 3. At least in the short term, it's the easiest option for the govt.

Green_Bear

westernpromise wrote: »

Wrong. You couldn't simply bankrupt an entire industry. Britain and most European countries first outlawed the slave trade; the slavers repurposed their ships to carry other cargo. The actual practice of slavery remained legal in British territory until the 1830s, at which point it was suppressed and governments compensated plantation owners.

Nope, the slaves were instantly unemployed and the white working class had their wages offered down by freed slaves whose labour could now be sold.

Slave owners, other workers, and the consumers of what slaves produced all lost. Only slaves gained. Economically, abolishing slavery made no sense. Yet we still abolished it because we agreed that we should not be bought out of an important principle.

So who picked the cotton?

phillw

Conina wrote: »

What tosh, we were doing all this before the days of the EU and even if we weren't you cannot say that we wouldn't be doing these things if we weren't EU members!

Just the evidence of our government trying to fight against it and you lot voting to leave the EU because we were being forced to do it.

What is it with leave voters and gas lighting? I know exactly what happened, you can't convince me with your lies

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The Eastern Europeans are highly organised, gangmasters etc,

Why are you singling out eastern europeans?

Sailtheworld

Conina wrote: »

Okay ducky, show me where I said that I dismissed the contents of the leaflet before it even arrived?

Once you've failed in that you might stop attributing things to me that I have not said.

Listen up chap. I never said you made such a proclamation but I hardly need to be a fly on the wall to know you will have been fuming about that leaflet and its dismissing its contents as project fear propaganda well in advance of its arrival.

The idea that you calmly studied the contents, accepted the negative consequences as read but reasoned it would be even worse than remaining isn't going to fly I'm afraid. I can make allowances for the fact that this is the internet and people might be more forthright online than they would face to face but my credulity can only be tested so far.

Sailtheworld

westernpromise wrote: »

Slave owners, other workers, and the consumers of what slaves produced all lost. Only slaves gained. Economically, abolishing slavery made no sense. Yet we still abolished it because we agreed that we should not be bought out of an important principle.

We all know there are non-financial reasons in decision making. You're labouring under the illusion that leave voters were altruistically voting leave for a good cause despite knowing it would be detrimental to their finances.

It's nonsense. The government told them this but they were dismissed as project fear traitors. Leavers were told they'd be heading for the sunlit uplands - it's a message parroted here daily.

Black slaves and space invaders - it's a ridiculous analogy anyway.

phillw

Sailtheworld wrote: »

The government told them this but they were dismissed as project fear traitors.

Some said they were willing to take a financial hit because they didn't like foreigners being here or controlling them.

Neither group has clean hands.