Will Brexit happen?

westernpromise

Green_Bear wrote: »

Slave owners didn't have to be compensated. They may have been, but that was a political choice.

Wrong. You couldn't simply bankrupt an entire industry. Britain and most European countries first outlawed the slave trade; the slavers repurposed their ships to carry other cargo. The actual practice of slavery remained legal in British territory until the 1830s, at which point it was suppressed and governments compensated plantation owners.

In the USA the threat of abolition without compensation triggered a civil war.

A six figure amount 200 years ago is a meaningless statement, as we have a fiat currency system today.

Don't be so literal. The price of a slave has always been the NPV of the slave's labour in the money of the day. That's how slaves were valued, right back to antiquity. That would be the equivalent of a six figure sum.

The winners were the freed slaves and the white working class in that region.

Nope, the slaves were instantly unemployed and the white working class had their wages offered down by freed slaves whose labour could now be sold.

Slave owners, other workers, and the consumers of what slaves produced all lost. Only slaves gained. Economically, abolishing slavery made no sense. Yet we still abolished it because we agreed that we should not be bought out of an important principle.

lisyloo

Green_Bear wrote: »

Can you?
Pity no one told all those American conscripts, before they got killed in Vietnam.

Here you are

https://people.howstuffworks.com/us-draft4.htm

You’re welcome

Here a high profile example

https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/06/muhammad-ali-vietnam/485717/

Conina

phillw wrote: »

Your post is bewildering.

Joining the EU has given us cleaner beaches & rivers, a legal right to refuse working more than 48 hours a week, the chance to live and work in one of 28 countries without having to go through extensive applications, the chance to do business with 28 countries without barrier.

There are so many benefits to EU membership, benefits outside the EU are limited to tax evasion & reduced rights for your employees. If that doesn't sound like it will benefit you, then you're not one of the people who will benefit from brexit.

What tosh, we were doing all this before the days of the EU and even if we weren't you cannot say that we wouldn't be doing these things if we weren't EU members! Our animal welfare standards are for example generally higher than those of the EU - how are you going to explain that as being down to the EU? Britons have worked across the world for centuries, all the EU has done is encourage Brits to go to them instead of looking worldwide (and largely that has failed) - plus tell me, how many universities will the EU have in the global top ten once the UK leaves? I will tell you; not one.

Takedap

Sailtheworld wrote: »

Nigel Farage et al didn't tell their followers that the leaflet was a decent forecast of the future but staying in the EU would be worse. Leave voters were told to dismiss the leaflet by their thought leaders.

Cognitive dissonance explains why people in belief systems when presented with proof their belief system is bolks still keep on believing.

You were there chap. You read the leaflet. You thought it was nonsense propaganda but, here we are, more than three years later with you trying to kid me you took a measured view of the contents, accepted there would be negative consequences but calculated staying would be worse.

I stand in awe of your brass neck.

The really simple ones probably didn't even read the leaflet.


They were given beermats that told them what to do.

Herzlos

You can claim we survived before the EU, and you'd be right but it's irrelevant. The Brits worked around the world without hassle for centuries because we colonised half of the world and and gave them no choice in the matter, that's not really the case now.



Will leaving the EU make working in the EU harder? Absolutely.
Will leaving the EU make trading with the EU harder? Absolutely.
Will leaving the EU allow the Tories to cut "red tape" (working and environmental conditions)? Absolutely.
Will leaving the EU reduce the number of foreigners in the UK? No.
Will leaving the EU improve the quality of life for the 99%? No.


Is leaving the EU a good idea?

Conina

Takedap wrote: »

The really simple ones probably didn't even read the leaflet.


They were given beermats that told them what to do.

Oh look, more "Brexiters are thick" hyperbole (acts surprised at the very obvious inability of some remainers to debate rather than deride).

Here endeth lesson one in how not to promote greater understanding between opposing factions in a time of great division.

Conina

Herzlos wrote: »

You can claim we survived before the EU, and you'd be right but it's irrelevant. The Brits worked around the world without hassle for centuries because we colonised half of the world and and gave them no choice in the matter, that's not really the case now.



Will leaving the EU make working in the EU harder? Absolutely.

Will leaving the EU allow the Tories to cut "red tape" (working and environmental conditions)? Absolutely.
Will leaving the EU reduce the number of foreigners in the UK? No.
Will leaving the EU improve the quality of life for the 99%? No.


Is leaving the EU a good idea?

Will leaving the EU make working anywhere else in the world more difficult? No.
Will leaving the EU make trading with the rest of the world easier? Absolutely.
Will leaving the EU allow the government to decide their own laws rather than be dictated-to? Absolutely.
Will leaving the EU let us decide who we allow into the country? Absolutely.
Will leaving the EU reduce the racism which encourages white migration above all other migration? Absolutely.
Will leaving the EU improve the quality of life for the 99%? Definitely.

Is leaving the EU a good idea? You betcha!

Green_Bear

westernpromise wrote: »

Which has nothing to do with the point that we often make economically costly decisions for reasons of principle.

For Remainers it appears EU membership is. It's all they talk about. Think of all the money. So what do they think we give up for the money, and is it enough money? How do you know?

Is 1,000% more wealth for everyone not a fair price for 75,000,000,000 lives?

But it is related to labour demand and supply and fiat currency systems.
Which have influenced the Brexit debate. Or at least should do, if people think about the issues properly.

I would also consider the Vietnam War an economically costly decision. Though probably a good result for Boeing shareholders.

Malthusian

Herzlos wrote: »

Will leaving the EU make working in the EU harder?

Not materially for anyone with the wherewithal to work in a foreign country with a foreign language.

Will leaving the EU make trading with the EU harder?

Swings and roundabouts.

Will leaving the EU allow the Tories to cut "red tape" (working and environmental conditions)?

There is no reason to believe they would as working and environmental conditions are superior in the UK to most of the EU.

Will leaving the EU reduce the number of foreigners in the UK?

Are you in favour of reducing the number of foreigners in the UK?

Will leaving the EU improve the quality of life for the 99%?

No, and nor will staying in it. To 99% of people the EU is irrelevant to their quality of life. The EU doesn't control their job, their family, their finances, their home, or their state of fitness and health.

Does constantly assuming the worst make your life better? No.
Does believing that everything is impossible unless a multinational government says you're allowed make you freer? No.
Does obsessing over prepper apocalypse fantasies help you plan for the future? No.
Does hating half your neighbours make you happier? No.

Is being a Remainer a good idea?

To Herzlos' question my personal opinion is most likely not. That's why I was a Remainer before the referendum (though I didn't vote). To my own question my answer is definitely not. That's why like millions of Brits I converted.

Green_Bear

Malthusian wrote: »

Not materially for anyone with the wherewithal to work in a foreign country with a foreign language.

Swings and roundabouts.

There is no reason to believe they would as working and environmental conditions are superior in the UK to most of the EU.

Are you in favour of reducing the number of foreigners in the UK?

No, and nor will staying in it. To 99% of people the EU is irrelevant to their quality of life. The EU doesn't control their job, their family, their finances, their home, or their state of fitness and health.

Does constantly assuming the worst make your life better? No.
Does believing that everything is impossible unless a multinational government says you're allowed make you freer? No.
Does obsessing over prepper apocalypse fantasies help you plan for the future? No.
Does hating half your neighbours make you happier? No.

Is being a Remainer a good idea?

To Herzlos' question my personal opinion is most likely not. That's why I was a Remainer before the referendum (though I didn't vote). To my own question my answer is definitely not. That's why like millions of Brits I converted.

The UK govt was dragged into accepting the EU WTD. The UK govt resisted it as much as possible.