Will Brexit happen?

Thrugelmir

Green_Bear wrote: »

Branson started his businesses in a different era.
If he was starting today, he'd probably be spending most of his time on eBay or some similar online site.

Vinyl LP's don't sell in great quantities these days.

Conina

Sailtheworld wrote: »

You were there chap. You read the leaflet. You thought it was nonsense propaganda but, here we are, more than three years later with you trying to kid me you took a measured view of the contents, accepted there would be negative consequences but calculated staying would be worse.

I stand in awe of your brass neck.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that conversely you believed every word of the government leaflet? You fell hook, line and sinker for the "no further integration" cobblers, the "protecting jobs" nonsense and the "securing our borders" carp when already the existing degree of integration is leading to still-increasing populism right across EU member countries in objection. Try telling the hundreds of thousands of Germans already told this year whose jobs are going that the EU protects jobs. As for "securing our borders" - hell, the French have delighted in encouraging attempts at illegal immigration into Britain for decades!

So I'm pleased you stand in awe of my "brass neck"; I would far rather have an honest brass neck than a dishonest and impractical idealism.

Sailtheworld

westernpromise wrote: »

So a guess. You don't know.

You know exactly what the reaction to the government leaflet was in leave quarters. Don't try and tell me leave voters took the stark warnings on board but calculated leaving would be better. BS - it was dismissed as project fear and then they just got back on to sunlit uplands and how the EU would be pleased, no honoured, to give us whatever deal we wanted.

Let's not be silly about this demanding my detailed study based on interviews with every leave voter. You were there and so was I.

westernpromise

Sailtheworld wrote: »

You know exactly what the reaction to the government leaflet was in leave quarters. Don't try and tell me leave voters took the stark warnings on board but calculated leaving would be better. BS - it was dismissed as project fear and then they just got back on to sunlit uplands and how the EU would be pleased, no honoured, to give us whatever deal we wanted.

Let's not be silly about this demanding my detailed study based on interviews with every leave voter. You were there and so was I.

Great. So we have your personal confidence that every last Leave voter of the 52% "dismissed [it] as project fear and then they just got back on to sunlit uplands". Not one believed it but thought the matter wasn't just about the money.

I think we all get that you hate Leave for winning, but it's equally clear that you have yet to work out why, or to what extent your attitudes made sure they won. Maybe reflect on that a bit.

Sailtheworld

Conina wrote: »

Are you seriously trying to suggest that conversely you believed every word of the government leaflet?

Hang on here chap. Just because you probably dismissed the contents of the leaflet before it even arrived through your letterbox doesn't follow that I nominated it to be included in the Bible as the gospel according to Dave.

Conina

Sailtheworld wrote: »

Let's not be silly about this demanding my detailed study based on interviews with every leave voter. You were there and so was I.

What you seem not to understand is that where you were at that time is not the same place that westernpromise or indeed most other people were.

Think of it as being a bit like the EU27; we've all had different upbringings and life experiences resulting in our expecting (or wanting, if you prefer) different things from life. Telling so many people that they are wrong just because they want different things to you will never, ever turn out well as even the EU are discovering with Poland, Hungary and more.

Sailtheworld

westernpromise wrote: »

Great. So we have your personal confidence that every last Leave voter of the 52% "dismissed [it] as project fear and then they just got back on to sunlit uplands". Not one believed it but thought the matter wasn't just about the money.

At least you've managed to accept that the leaflet was a decent forecast of what might happen. Baby steps.

westernpromise wrote: »

I think we all get that you hate Leave for winning, but it's equally clear that you have yet to work out why, or to what extent your attitudes made sure they won. Maybe reflect on that a bit.

"Boo hoo. I'm going to vote x, y or z because someone, probably a liberal or something, upset me by saying it wasn't a very good idea. I'll show them."

Words no grown-up has ever uttered.

Sailtheworld

Conina wrote: »

What you seem not to understand is that where you were at that time is not the same place that westernpromise or indeed most other people were.

Think of it as being a bit like the EU27; we've all had different upbringings and life experiences resulting in our expecting (or wanting, if you prefer) different things from life. Telling so many people that they are wrong just because they want different things to you will never, ever turn out well as even the EU are discovering with Poland, Hungary and more.

We were talking about the leaflet. Don't try and move the goalposts.

elstimpo

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Still waiting for the 900,000 job loses. Today we have record numbers in employment and a record low unemployment level.

Meanwhile sit on the fence Corbyn continues to muddle along......

Do these figures include zero hour contracts ?

borntobefree

Lib Democrats will be standing on a platform of Revoke :T:T:T


Brilliant.