20 mph speed limits.

AdrianC

custardy wrote: »

From my Twitter just today from London

Cyclist nearly killed by left turning lorry (before the usual jump on it,the cyclist was ahead of the lorry and the lorry was in RH turn lane)

Umm, what's that got to do with 20 limits?


The wagon was in the RH turn lane because the only way he can get round the junction is to take the entire road up.

The cyclist was invisible to him because she was probably fairly well hidden by the van - which could only pass her because she was riding in the gutter. And why did she not look around her at any stage? She would have heard the wagon, surely...


It's the usual story that either of the two could have averted it with a bit more alertness. Fortunately, the camera cyclist was there and shouted, and fortunately the truck driver heard him.

Reality is cities are designed for motorised transport and that needs to change.

If London really was designed for motorised transport, the wagon would not be having to do a three-point turn at a junction like that. A large part of London's traffic problems are because the road layout is so antiquated.

custardy

heatherw_01 wrote: »

I am female and we have 20mph zones around here and honestly it's a joke. It is way too slow and no one seems to do it anyway. Minimum should be 30mph imo

Minimum? So what speed do you suggest for around schools?
Tell you one thing,much easier to get out busy junctions on 20 zones.

custardy

AdrianC wrote: »

Umm, what's that got to do with 20 limits?


The wagon was in the RH turn lane because the only way he can get round the junction is to take the entire road up.

The cyclist was invisible to him because she was probably fairly well hidden by the van - which could only pass her because she was riding in the gutter. And why did she not look around her at any stage? She would have heard the wagon, surely...


It's the usual story that either of the two could have averted it with a bit more alertness. Fortunately, the camera cyclist was there and shouted, and fortunately the truck driver heard him.




If London really was designed for motorised transport, the wagon would not be having to do a three-point turn at a junction like that. A large part of London's traffic problems are because the road layout is so antiquated.

So we are okay with people being killed as thats what it takes for a lorry to turn left?

So the road layouts aren't going to change (Edinburgh is the same) so a different solution needs to be found.

unholyangel

Female here and I'd say if you want cars to stick to a 20mph limit, install cobblestones. Theres a few villages around here with them and on 20mph stretches that are tarmac, they tend to speed while the stretches on cobblestone streets, they tend to go 10-15mph.

I support them around schools etc - as children don't have the same awareness/hazard perception as adults (and an adults still leaves much to be desired!) so you're more likely to get them walking out behind vehicles or running across the road when traffic is coming.

But I wouldn't support a blanket zone because imo the general public interpret the whole "pay extra attention for pedestrians and cyclists who you may not see as easily" as "stop what you're doing and roll out the red carpet to make way for any pedestrians". You see it in car parks a lot - where they just walk out in front of you either not looking at all or looking straight at you and not giving a toss.

Then again, I'd like to see mandatory tests and insurance for anyone using any type of vehicle on the road and in an ideal world, the lazy pricks who park dangerously obstructing either the road or the view of the road, just to save walking an extra 20ft would be made to walk for a month (increasing for each new infraction).

AdrianC

custardy wrote: »

So we are okay with people being killed as thats what it takes for a lorry to turn left?

<sigh> Where did I say that...?


If you bother reading what I actually wrote, I said that two road users were insufficiently aware of what was around them.

So the road layouts aren't going to change (Edinburgh is the same) so a different solution needs to be found.

How many buildings do you want to compulsarily purchase and demolish?

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

The problem with urban driving is that far too many motorists think that the speed they choose to do is the right one and the result is that speed bumps get installed due to their behaviour.

Any motorist who complains about speed bumps should be complaining about the motorists who are too self-important to abide by limits and result in speed surveys that show that the limit is being exceeded by more than 20% of the drivers - councils normally do a speed survey to justify the spending in a location and they would not justify the spending if driving was reasonably compliant.

Locally, speed surveys have found people driving at 80mph in 30 limits - so clearly you have to design roads to cope with idiots rather than law abiding citizens. Don't blame the councils.

Try driving at speed limits, and contrary to anecdotal evidence, you will find that other drivers fall in line, and in an urban environment although you may temporarily fall behind, you will soon join back up with the speedsters ahead. In fact, I've had plenty of occasions where I have been aggressively or dangerously overtaken by a car and through good (and correct!) lane choice have ended up in front of them all while sticking to the limit. Similarly, driving smoothly up to a junction is quicker than a screech and accelerate hard approach - you can time your move to fit in with other traffic whereas a speeding motorist has to concentrate on stopping and only then starts to assess when they can go.

The only significant exception to it feeling safe to be abiding by speed limits is in motorway road works where people seem to have decided that where there are no average speed cameras then driving at about 70mph or more is no problem at all.

Car_54

westernpromise wrote: »

If you see 20 painted on the road and it's a built up area with no other signs, then the speed limit is 30.

It's in the Highway Code, which you don't seem to be familiar with - Audi driver I'm guessing?

Wrong. A 20 mph zone needs traffic calming at regular intervals, but no signs except at entry and exit

custardy

AdrianC wrote: »

<sigh> Where did I say that...?


If you bother reading what I actually wrote, I said that two road users were insufficiently aware of what was around them.



How many buildings do you want to compulsarily purchase and demolish?

Which part of the road layout not changing didn't you get?

Heres your quote

The wagon was in the RH turn lane because the only way he can get round the junction is to take the entire road up.

The cyclist was invisible to him because she was probably fairly well hidden by the van - which could only pass her because she was riding in the gutter. And why did she not look around her at any stage? She would have heard the wagon, surely...

So driver did what he had to do, and a list of what the cyclist did wrong.
Watch the video,the lorry was catching up to the cyclist. The van passed the cyclist before the turn. If they didn't see the cyclist then its on them.
I really had hoped this wasn't up for debate and blaming someone who was nearly killed,however I was probably naive in that hope.

We still have vehicles in built up areas with terrible visibility and very little tech to avoid this sort of stuff.

custardy

Car_54 wrote: »

Wrong. A 20 mph zone needs traffic calming at regular intervals, but no signs except at entry and exit

Do you have a link to that?

heatherw_01

custardy wrote: »

Minimum? So what speed do you suggest for around schools?
Tell you one thing,much easier to get out busy junctions on 20 zones.

Around schools sure but all over, I don't agree to 20mph