Child free by choice?

zaffi

zagfles wrote: »

Salaries have gone up faster than house prices in most of the country in the last 10 years. See http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-4880966/House-prices-vs-wages-UK-ten-years.html

Interesting article in the guardian today titled "Home ownership among young adults has 'collapsed', study finds"


"New research from the Institute for Fiscal Studies shows how an explosion in house prices above income growth has increasingly robbed the younger generation of the ability to buy their own home. For 25- to 34-year-olds earning between £22,200 and £30,600 per year, home ownership fell to just 27% in 2016 from 65% two decades ago."


this coupled with increasingly high private rents is only going to mean one thing, 20 somethings are going to be more likely to stay at home with their parents for longer to save for a deposit.

SandC

Yellow, we have many apprentices where I work and after they have finished their apprenticeship they are usually kept on full time and put on the same pay rates as other staff as soon as they become eligible. Several have had a couple of promotions and are doing extremely well and have also completed degrees funded by the company. There are a lot of opportunities for young people these days outside of the school/A level/Uni route.

Also, my time was before student loans so if you weren't from a low income family then it had to be funded by your family or many worked at the same time. The loans are now necessary for most because of the tuition fees but really uni wasn't an option for a lot of young people before this system started - think accommodation/living costs, books etc. (no internet!).

A for retiring early, I agree with you, it's not as easy as pensions are in no way comparable to those of my parents' era. That and many people are still paying off mortgages well into their 60s whilst helping children out as well.

It's good you're thinking so carefully about all aspects of it, but most people don't and you know what, if you decide you want children, you'll work it out. :-)

Pollycat

yellow218 wrote: »

You’re right. You can’t guarentee that a young parent won’t die leaving young children. However the risk of leaving children parentless at a younger age increases with the age of the parent.

Is it down to the old parent to decide whether they are ok about dieing and leaving children behind? Personally, I think that’s a little selfish. It’s the child that has to deal with it. And they didn’t get a vote in that decision making process. Dealing with the loss of a parent is hard at any age. But to do so as a teenager, with all those hormones, is horrendous.

I think it's down to the individual to decide.
And it's very likely that an 'old parent' and Mother would have given a lot of thought to bringing a child into this world.

Unlike crack-heads and the like, who would give no thought whatsoever to a child they might give life to.
Children born to those type of parents didn't get a vote in that decision making process either.

I think I'd rather take my chances with the former and know that it's likely that my Father would die when I was still quite young rather than live with young parents who might take drugs, drink to excess and exercise violence on a regular basis.

I'm not denying that dealing with the loss of a parent at a young age is horrendous, but dealing with abuse - physical and mental - at a young age on a regular basis must be pretty awful too.

Smodlet

Pollycat wrote: »

I think it's down to the individual to decide.
And it's very likely that an 'old parent' and Mother would have given a lot of thought to bringing a child into this world.

Unlike crack-heads and the like, who would give no thought whatsoever to a child they might give life to.
Children born to those type of parents didn't get a vote in that decision making process either.

I think I'd rather take my chances with the former and know that it's likely that my Father would die when I was still quite young rather than live with young parents who might take drugs, drink to excess and exercise violence on a regular basis.

I'm not denying that dealing with the loss of a parent at a young age is horrendous, but dealing with abuse - physical and mental - at a young age on a regular basis must be pretty awful too.

... Having to live the other side of a wall from it is no picnic, lemme tell ya.

Yellow, you are obviously a very thoughtful person; how many (especially of your generation) have the intelligence or maturity for such soul-searching? I echo the poster who said you will work it out; you will and you will make the right decision for both of you and, if applicable, for your offspring should you change your minds.

Well done on being so successful so early in life. Your parents must be really proud. I hope to all the powers that does not come across as patronising; it really is not meant to be.

Moneycat

Another child free person here and no regrets. Being an only child and hating not having any siblings, I always thought that I would be equally happy with no children or two or more; as long as it was not just 1. When I met my husband, he already had a child (unplanned) from a previous relationship and he said right from the beginning that he did not want to have any more. So that pretty much settled it. I like the idea of a big noisy family; but I know the reality would be somewhat very different. I also thought a lot about getting old and maybe ending in a nursing home somewhere by myself with nobody visiting. But that that is not a reason to have a child and even with children, there is no guarantee that they will even live in the same country once they once they have grown up (as it happened to me and my parents).
I'll be soon turning 50 so the time is up as far as having children is concerned, but I have no regrets. Instead, after years of working hard and being MSE, I'm now seriously looking to change career from a well paid (but dull) job to something more fulfilling albeit poorly paid and I doubt that I would be in a position to do that had we had children. There are no rights or wrongs; each to their own. You have still plenty of time to change your mind should you wish. And well done you for thinking the decision through beforehand!
And as my dear friend who has a habit speaking her mind, put it: "Don't get me wrong, I love [child's name] more than anything but I seriously think children are overrated" Sums it up nicely.

cyantist

yellow218 wrote: »

Zagflies and cyantist. I apologise, my comments where huge generalisations. I admit that my comments don't apply to all, but I think they apply to most, especially in London or the south.

Yes, students get support if parents have a low income. I don't have a low income. Any child of mine would get the minimum loans. I had the minimum loans when at uni, but parents supported me in terms of I returned to live with them during holidays, but they didn't top up my loan. At the time, I didn't consider that to be financial support but of course me living with them costed something and meant they couldn't down size (had they wanted to).

No need to apologise! For someone in the South I agree it's bloody difficult to buy a property.

But I think that was the point we were making - if you retired before your child went to uni (as my parents did) your income would be fairly low so they would get maximum loans.

As someone who has studied at a number of Uni's, and now work at another, I would do anything I could to dissuade my daughter from going to anything that isn't a Russell group Uni. It is generally very very hard to get a good job after a degree, but if you've gone to a very good Uni, studied a relevant subject and come out with a good grade it really isn't difficult at all.

However the points you are raising apply to a lot of people and it's good you're considering them. If you really wanted kids you'd find a way around them, or just not worry, as so many others do. I knew from as far back as I remember I wanted children and I love my daughter to bits, she's wonderful and am so glad I have her. But that's the point of view of someone who desperately wanted children. If someone wasn't sure if they even wanted kids then I expect they'd find parenthood a lot more difficult than I do and given the many negatives of having children (OMG the childcare costs!!!) then I'd wonder why they'd bother.

You have time to decide still and if you decided against it, and really regretted it in your 40s/50s/60s, you could possibly foster...? It's my plan to retire early so I can fill my little house with as many foster children as it can possibly hold so even if you didn't have children yourself, it doesn't mean your life would always have to be childfree (though obviously fostering is not for everyone)

cheeky-peach

I'll be 30 this year and I'd love to have a child / children but my partner isn't ready - it breaks my heart to see baby photos / ads on facebook etc and it's not something that's going away. I keep telling myself that there are so many 'cons' to having babies (no lay-ins, sleepless nights, less money etc) but it's still there. I think if you know you know and you definately still have time to change your mind.

FBaby

Is it down to the old parent to decide whether they are ok about dieing and leaving children behind? Personally, I think that!!!8217;s a little selfish.

Here we go, we all have different opinions of what we think is selfish. My grandmother was 45, grand father 50 when they had my sister. Selfish or not, my mum doesn't regret being born and can't have been traumatised because she went on to have my sister at 42 with my stepdad who was 54. Yes, my SD died when she was 15, but my sister is no more traumatised than her friend whose dad moved abroad when she was 12, nor her other friend whose parents argued continually when she was a teenager leading to her moving with her grand parents.

I think when it comes to children, the best thing to do is to live in the present because it's very hard to predict what life will be like with or without them in years to come. My experience of parenthood is certainly different to what I had imagined in my 20s before I had them, as good as I expected in some ways, not so much in others, and just different i yet other ways.

Gloomendoom

FBaby wrote: »

My grandmother was 45, grand father 50 when they had my sister.

Impressive!

Smodlet

Gloomendoom wrote: »

Impressive!

Is your family name Targaryen by any chance?