Child free by choice?

Red-Squirrel_2

zagfles wrote: »

Because having children doesn't mean you can't look great and cram loads into your life, maybe

If you want/wanted/had kids, that's great. Nobody's trying to persuade anybody not to! It seems like you want to persuade people that they should though! Why would you want children to be born to parents who don't really want them?

zagfles

yellow218 wrote: »

Out of interest, how old are you now? I think it probably could have worked, but i think it works less with today's parents of teens, and even less in the future. why? Because hypothetically i do have children, i wouldn't want to retire until 1) my children were financially independent and 2) had left home so hubby and i had our freedom again.

More and more 'children' are staying at home for longer:

1) 16-18 yr olds now have to be in education or training
2) uni costs more now, so more 'children' look to parents for support (not that they are entitled, but even martin lewis acknowledges that its an unwritten rule the government considered when setting maintenance loans etc).

The more the parents earn, the higher their "unwritten" contribution should be. Those from families on low incomes get the full loan plus usually bursaries on top. So it's an incentive to retire early!

3) its harder now for graduates to get good jobs.

Not if they get a decent degree in a "useful" subject from a good university.

4) even if they do, it's harder to get onto the property ladder as house prices are increasing, and not at the same rate as salaries.

Salaries have gone up faster than house prices in most of the country in the last 10 years. See http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-4880966/House-prices-vs-wages-UK-ten-years.html

zagfles

Red-Squirrel wrote: »

If you want/wanted/had kids, that's great. Nobody's trying to persuade anybody not to! It seems like you want to persuade people that they should though! Why would you want children to be born to parents who don't really want them?

!!!!!!?? I think you must have comprehension difficulties.

Someone posts about what a wonderful life it is without kids. Yet you reckon "Nobody's trying to persuade anybody not to!"

I post that having kids doesn't stop you having a wonderful life. Yet you say "It seems like you want to persuade people that they should though!":rotfl:

I also wrote earlier: "When we got married my wife knew I didn't want kids then, and we wouldn't be having any unless I changed my mind, kids should be wanted by both parents."

And I'm trying to persuade people to have kids who don't really want them :rotfl:

System

1)You may regret it, or it may be the best thing you ever did (well didn;t do), 2)make it clear its your choice and if they don't like it they can sod off

I'm 32 (well this year), my bf does not want kids, never has, doesn;t like them (though tolerates them), i do not want kids. Slightly more complex reasons though, i have bipolar. Posta natal depression is a near certainty for me, and i have 50% chance of post natal psychosis. This, obviously, scares the living daylights out of me. Tbh i triggle to look after myself (even in periodds of wellness), there is no chance in hell i could cope with a child AMD be ill at the same time. I just can;t go through with it. Theres also the chance that i could pass the bipolar on and i never for a second want that to be a possibility. I would never forgive myself if a child i bore had to go through what I've been through.

My mum has brought up grandkids before and i;ve told her in no uncertain terms that she won;t be getting any from me. Thankfully i think she understands my reasons (and she has 3 healthy kids who may well go on to have children).

I thin k if its something you're sure of, stick your ground. There will be people who will try and change your mind, there will be people who will tell you you're selfish, there will be people who say you'll change your mind. But for me if you know in yourself you don;t want them, thats your choice, and that's ok.

Cakeguts

I am not sure how I feel about older people having children. By older I mean older men I know of someone who did this and the children were only in their teens when he died from an age related illness.

badmemory

We are lucky now that whether we do or do not have children is a matter of choice. If you feel that you do not then do not, having one under those circumstances does no-one any good & does your marriage/partnership no good either.

cyantist

yellow218 wrote: »

Out of interest, how old are you now? I think it probably could have worked, but i think it works less with today's parents of teens, and even less in the future. why? Because hypothetically i do have children, i wouldn't want to retire until 1) my children were financially independent and 2) had left home so hubby and i had our freedom again.

More and more 'children' are staying at home for longer:

1) 16-18 yr olds now have to be in education or training
2) uni costs more now, so more 'children' look to parents for support (not that they are entitled, but even martin lewis acknowledges that its an unwritten rule the government considered when setting maintenance loans etc).
3) its harder now for graduates to get good jobs.
4) even if they do, it's harder to get onto the property ladder as house prices are increasing, and not at the same rate as salaries.

I don't think i would let myself retire until my offspring had left home. I may want to downsize, and live off the capital in my home, however that would essential make my child homeless.

All that above my still happen irrespective of what age i have children, but lets say the 'child' leaves home at 25, if i don't have said child until i'm 40, that would make me 65 by the time they leave home.

My parents have just retired at 55. That's a whole 10 years difference, and crucial 10 years, that are still young fit and healthy so can enjoy their freedom (from us kids and work).

I am 35 now. I was in full time education until 25 but I had to pay less fees for my first degree as my parents income was very low, and I got the full loan. Also I wasn't living at home then - I moved away to go to uni at 18 and never went back.

My parents had expected me to go to uni so had been saving for it since I was a small child, so it didn't matter their income was lower as they could still help me out as they would have done if they were working.

And I do agree with zagfles that with a good degree from good university you can get a good job relatively easily. I teach at a uni now, our students don't struggle.

Also the house I bought 14 years ago is now worth exactly the same as when I bought it! In some areas it is a huge struggle to buy (we bought 3 years ago near London and it was so difficult), but in most areas that's not the case.

Pollycat

Cakeguts wrote: »

I am not sure how I feel about older people having children. By older I mean older men I know of someone who did this and the children were only in their teens when he died from an age related illness.

But isn't it up to the parents of those children to decide how they feel about having a child with an older Father rather than how you feel about it?
And men do die young of various illnesses and through accidents so there's no guarantee that a child will have a Father who lives into their middle age regardless of how he is at the birth of the child..

yellow218

Zagflies and cyantist. I apologise, my comments where huge generalisations. I admit that my comments don!!!8217;t apply to all, but I think they apply to most, especially in London or the south.

I live in the south and intend to stay in the south. As your link showed, property here is less affordable than it used to be. My house price has certainly increased more than my salary. If I was to buy it now I doubt I could afford it.

Yes, students get support if parents have a low income. I don!!!8217;t have a low income. Any child of mine would get the minimum loans. I had the minimum loans when at uni, but parents supported me in terms of I returned to live with them during holidays, but they didn!!!8217;t top up my loan. At the time, I didn!!!8217;t consider that to be financial support but of course me living with them costed something and meant they couldn!!!8217;t down size (had they wanted to).

Yes, graduates CAN get a good job. I consider myself one of them. But I also consider that to be rare. I went to an old polytech and got a 2:2. But I was still one of the only ones to get what I would call a good job straight from uni. For many it took a few years.

And given that, those with good jobs can be independent. Because of m job I was financially independent (renting) at 21, married at 23, and a home owner at 25.

It worked fine for me. But it!!!8217;s not true for many of my peers.

yellow218

Pollycat wrote: »

But isn't it up to the parents of those children to decide how they feel about having a child with an older Father rather than how you feel about it?
And men do die young of various illnesses and through accidents so there's no guarantee that a child will have a Father who lives into their middle age regardless of how he is at the birth of the child..

You’re right. You can’t guarentee that a young parent won’t die leaving young children. However the risk of leaving children parentless at a younger age increases with the age of the parent.

Is it down to the old parent to decide whether they are ok about dieing and leaving children behind? Personally, I think that’s a little selfish. It’s the child that has to deal with it. And they didn’t get a vote in that decision making process. Dealing with the loss of a parent is hard at any age. But to do so as a teenager, with all those hormones, is horrendous.