Working for family

balletshoes

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

My dad (not a professional tradesman) has helped me out with loads of stuff since I bought my house; constructing a patio, putting up built-in shelves, stripping woodchip, painting, fencing etc. I've paid for the materials and he's enjoyed himself by lecturing me on quality workmanship, the importance of preparation, how it was all better in his day, A History Of Tools I Have Owned etc. He would find the idea of invoicing ludicrous.

I hope this can be resolved amicably and there are no misunderstandings going forward, but fear this may be unlikely...

aw I miss that, my Dad was exactly the same ...............

Savvy_Sue

bap98189 wrote: »

I can see another side to this.

He has been doing a lot of work for you, including buying materials. You say that there has been no discussion about payment. I suspect he has been expecting you or your OH to offer to pay him something, at the very least for the stuff he has bought. If neither of you has done so then this is him running out of patience.

He probably didn't want to do this but discussing money with family members can be seen as awkward and probably not a conversation he thinks he should be starting. I suspect he is fed up that you have not offered him any money, or at least started a "so how much do I owe you" conversation.

Yes, I wondered about this, but there's also ...

samtoby wrote: »

I have been trying to get these receipts off him for ages. And last night I got them all - we have never said we wouldn't pay him for the materials - we offered to buy them ourselves but he would always say it was easier for him to buy them and we pay him back. We bought him something very expensive at Christmas as a thank you and we have also taken him and MIL out for a lot of meals in the last year as a thank you.

It's the kind of thing I can see my FIL doing. "They keep bugging me for receipts, I don't want anything from them, how dare they think I want their money. I know how I'll stop them, I'll show them what they'd REALLY have to pay if I wanted anything from them."

Logical, not to me, but to him, impeccable.

(Not that this has ever happened, but he used to get very fixed ideas sometimes and could take offence over things which had not been said / had not happened.)

unholyangel wrote: »

Personally, I'd have spoke to him about it as soon as he handed over the invoice with his time on it and asked what was up. I hate passive aggressive. If you have an issue with something someone has said/done, pull on your big girl pant and talk to them about it.

If you respond in passive aggressive manners (like the FIL did with his invoice), all it does is build confusion and resentment - its not going to solve whatever the problem is.

Even just a "Look, you never said when you offered to help us that you expected to be paid and if you had, we would have declined as we were doing it ourselves to save money. But given you've been working for over a year without ever mentioning that you expect to be paid, we can only assume the fact you're now asking for money is because we've done something to upset you. We would like to know what we have done so we can try and put it right because you & MIL mean a lot to us and we do greatly appreciate everything you've helped us to do. We thought we accurately expressed that with your extra special christmas present, meals out etc but clearly we were wrong so please can we sort this so it doesn't ruin the relationship between us".

That sounds good.

Spendless

I read through this thread before work this morning baffled, then I read Savvy Sue's response above. That's certainly a scenario I can imagine happening (in some families).

I think I'd be tempted to ask DH to ask his Mum if either of you has done anything to upset his Dad and see what's said.

jackieblack

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

he's enjoyed himself by lecturing me on quality workmanship, the importance of preparation, how it was all better in his day, A History Of Tools I Have Owned etc.

:rotfl: This was also my Dad - to a 'T'! :rotfl:
Also, whatever you needed, whatever the job, he had always "got one of those in my shed, I think... "

Sarastro

thorsoak wrote: »

As others have said, if it hadn't been discussed beforehand, I too would be shocked and upset about this - but you do know in future to refuse all proffered help.

As regards paying him, tell him that you will have to pay it through the books - as you and your OH have just started a business, then it is imperative that you show all outgoings - and over £1000 is not a small amount. FiL will just have to suck it up and pay the VAT and tax on it!

Only if it is a legitimate business expense - which I don't think it is. Otherwise it will have to be paid out of their personal money. I think the original point was about the Father in law wanting to avoid putting the income through his own business as he would have to pay tax on it.

Sarastro

thorsoak wrote: »

As others have said, if it hadn't been discussed beforehand, I too would be shocked and upset about this - but you do know in future to refuse all proffered help.

As regards paying him, tell him that you will have to pay it through the books - as you and your OH have just started a business, then it is imperative that you show all outgoings - and over £1000 is not a small amount. FiL will just have to suck it up and pay the VAT and tax on it!

No - you can't pay it through your books unless it's a legit business expense. And FIL will only charge VAT if he's VAT registered. If he is and he's given you an invoice without VAT...HMRC won't be impressed.

thorsoak

Sarastro wrote: »

Only if it is a legitimate business expense - which I don't think it is. Otherwise it will have to be paid out of their personal money. I think the original point was about the Father in law wanting to avoid putting the income through his own business as he would have to pay tax on it.

Sorry I did not clarify my comment : what I meant was that as they have only just started up a business, they would want to be keeping comprehensive accounts, both personally and as a business.

pearl123

cjdavies wrote: »

Would you offer to help, mention no labour cost per hour but do it afterwards?

No I’d be upfront about any costs. He should have spoken out at the point he felt he needed to charge for his work.

AylesburyDuck

I hope this isnt going to be one of those threads the OP never comes back to.
Being the nosy cow that i am i want to know how the meeting went.:rotfl:

DUTR

samtoby wrote: »

My father in law was a builder by trade before retiring in 2012.

He has been doing a lot of odd jobs for us and helped my husband fit our kitchen this year. He has laid flooring, put up shelves and generally been handy if my husband needed any help, we have our own business which we have recently started - and we have three children so when help has been offered we have said 'thank you' and accepted.

We were aware there were some things he had paid for such as bolts and wood to do some of these tasks and he had said he has the invoices and we have received them today.

Alongside this, is a bill, itemised, of all the hours he has worked doing things for us with a charge at £10 an hour - although he said he could have charged more, and a request we pay this in cash and not from the business where he will have to declare it.

There was no discussion about paying him at any time, although we did buy him a very expensive gift for Christmas as a thank you for everything he had done and we take him and OH's Mum out quite often for meals when work has been done to say 'thank you' so it has not gone unappreciated by us.

I am really stunned as I never thought in a million years he would charge us - as my husband has done a lot for him over the years and if he wants help for his home which he shares with OH's mother - my husband has just done it - and not billed him for it! My Mum does things for us all the time, and she doesn't bill us!

I realise we have to pay it - I don't feel we have any choice - but would you expect to be billed by your own parents for help they offered you?

I'm shocked and confused by the thread, mate family or other, I wouldn't expect anyone to do something for free, at the rate he is asking, you still have a bargain, I don't know what the work situation is down south.
I'd certainly being paying over 10 quid an hour whether cash in hand or not.
Around here you wouldn't think there is any lack of work around as many traders simply do not even show to view a job.

Why do something for nothing, when you can do nothing for nothing.
Simply pay and future jobs do not request the services of the said person in future.