Land Registry questions

user1977

Locoblade said:

Land_Registry said:

Locoblade said:

Hi

I'm helping a relative fill in an FR1 form to complete first registration of a small piece of land purchased in the early 1980's to extend the garden of their house that seemingly never got registered with Land Registry at the time. 

The third question asks that you identify the piece of land via a map. We have an original title document with a plan but although laminated with official stamp and to scale, it looks like it was derived from an architect's drawing of the area rather than an official OS map and to me it's not as clear as it could be. The guidance does say to only use the title map if it's clear but what is and isn't clear is obviously rather subjective, so what happens if we submit and the plan isn't sufficient?

Another option is to submit an ad-hoc plan that "must be prepared to a suitable scale, preferably based on the Ordnance Survey map.". Would this option need to be professionally done by a conveyancer with accurate measurements etc or would it be sufficient to take a printout of the online OS website map and mark the area in question, perhaps submitting it in conjunction with the title document plan as well?

As a slight aside, looking at the online OS map, the piece of land in question is actually shown as part of my relatives garden anyway which suggests the change of ownership perhaps was officially documented at some point, I don't know if that changes anything?

Thanks

A suitable plan is essential so a current OS map or adjoining title plan with the land then marked clearly on it 
OS maps show the physical features in place when the area was surveyed and mapped by OS. The change of ownership had and will have no bearing on what OS map 

Thank you, so a new plan will be required by the sounds of it. I'm still not clear though if we can do this ourselves using online OS map resources, does it need us to purchase an OS map of a larger scale, or do we need a conveyancer to draw all this up officially?

I expect you'll need to pay for the relevant OS map extract (or use a commercial plan-drawing service which has an appropriate OS licence) - I guess HMLR would bounce anything which looks like a breach of copyright.

dreamingofholiday1

Hi, I am in the process of selling a new build (freehold) and one final enquiry is really holding things up. It's related to a restriction that a separate estate management company (JCAM Commercial Real Estate Property VII Limited). The only contact address we have for them is 26 New Street, St Helier, Jersey, JE2 3RA. No phone number or email. They are proving to be uncontactable, but neighbours have mentioned they have contacted the Land Registry to serve notice to this company in order to complete the sale & 'set aside' the restriction. The downside is that apparently this requires 30 working days. What is the process here & what can be done to speed it up if possible? Is it possible to just remove the restriction so we can proceed ASAP? Thankyou 

Land_Registry

Harrysmom said:

Hi, can you still use an ID3 from instead of using a conveyancer?

Yes. Form ID3 is an alternative

Land_Registry

user1977 said:

Locoblade said:

Land_Registry said:

Locoblade said:

Hi

I'm helping a relative fill in an FR1 form to complete first registration of a small piece of land purchased in the early 1980's to extend the garden of their house that seemingly never got registered with Land Registry at the time. 

The third question asks that you identify the piece of land via a map. We have an original title document with a plan but although laminated with official stamp and to scale, it looks like it was derived from an architect's drawing of the area rather than an official OS map and to me it's not as clear as it could be. The guidance does say to only use the title map if it's clear but what is and isn't clear is obviously rather subjective, so what happens if we submit and the plan isn't sufficient?

Another option is to submit an ad-hoc plan that "must be prepared to a suitable scale, preferably based on the Ordnance Survey map.". Would this option need to be professionally done by a conveyancer with accurate measurements etc or would it be sufficient to take a printout of the online OS website map and mark the area in question, perhaps submitting it in conjunction with the title document plan as well?

As a slight aside, looking at the online OS map, the piece of land in question is actually shown as part of my relatives garden anyway which suggests the change of ownership perhaps was officially documented at some point, I don't know if that changes anything?

Thanks

A suitable plan is essential so a current OS map or adjoining title plan with the land then marked clearly on it 
OS maps show the physical features in place when the area was surveyed and mapped by OS. The change of ownership had and will have no bearing on what OS map 

Thank you, so a new plan will be required by the sounds of it. I'm still not clear though if we can do this ourselves using online OS map resources, does it need us to purchase an OS map of a larger scale, or do we need a conveyancer to draw all this up officially?

I expect you'll need to pay for the relevant OS map extract (or use a commercial plan-drawing service which has an appropriate OS licence) - I guess HMLR would bounce anything which looks like a breach of copyright.

Copyright usually relates to you using a plan for commercial reasons such as using a plan in a book for publication. 

For example copies of existing title plans are often used as part of a legal deed to define an extent. It all very much depends on what you are needing a plan for. Just own use for no commercial gain and copyright probably doesn’t impact. 

What we bounce is a plan with no scale, no north point and not enough detail to match existing OS detail 

silvercar

dreamingofholiday1 said:

Hi, I am in the process of selling a new build (freehold) and one final enquiry is really holding things up. It's related to a restriction that a separate estate management company (JCAM Commercial Real Estate Property VII Limited). The only contact address we have for them is 26 New Street, St Helier, Jersey, JE2 3RA. No phone number or email. They are proving to be uncontactable, but neighbours have mentioned they have contacted the Land Registry to serve notice to this company in order to complete the sale & 'set aside' the restriction. The downside is that apparently this requires 30 working days. What is the process here & what can be done to speed it up if possible? Is it possible to just remove the restriction so we can proceed ASAP? Thankyou 

We had a similar problem with a company registered in the channel isles. Land Registry uses their official address and gives them a set amount of time to respond. You need to find a contact and persuade them to reply to the LR quickly. I would start with their registration document at companies house, that has a London address for their agent. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/OE011871/filing-history

Land_Registry

dreamingofholiday1 said:

Hi, I am in the process of selling a new build (freehold) and one final enquiry is really holding things up. It's related to a restriction that a separate estate management company (JCAM Commercial Real Estate Property VII Limited). The only contact address we have for them is 26 New Street, St Helier, Jersey, JE2 3RA. No phone number or email. They are proving to be uncontactable, but neighbours have mentioned they have contacted the Land Registry to serve notice to this company in order to complete the sale & 'set aside' the restriction. The downside is that apparently this requires 30 working days. What is the process here & what can be done to speed it up if possible? Is it possible to just remove the restriction so we can proceed ASAP? Thankyou 

You/your conveyancer need to look at the precise wording of the restriction and the role of the EMC whilst bearing in mind the options set out in our PG 19 
I suspect, but don’t know, your neighbours may be referencing the disapplication option - see section 3 of the PG. 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/notices-restrictions-and-the-protection-of-third-party-interests-in-the-register
As far as then speeding things up, once an application is submitted, a request to expedite it, based on the confirmed purchase, should then be made. 

middleagedriver

Hi, recently purchased a property, title number: ND88212. We are having a few issues with surface water in the garden and we're looking to get the drains inspected. Looking at the official title plan I think the surface water drainage are at the front and back of the house marked R.E 13.00 and we seem to be at the start of the drainage for our row of houses. These lines also have an inspection/man hole where the gaps are in the line. Are you able confirm that these lines are indeed surface water drains?

Land_Registry

middleagedriver said:

Hi, recently purchased a property, title number: ND88212. We are having a few issues with surface water in the garden and we're looking to get the drains inspected. Looking at the official title plan I think the surface water drainage are at the front and back of the house marked R.E 13.00 and we seem to be at the start of the drainage for our row of houses. These lines also have an inspection/man hole where the gaps are in the line. Are you able confirm that these lines are indeed surface water drains?

I don’t think that’s the right title and maybe the seller’s larger title. 

If there are markings on the plan then they will be Ordnance Survey markings and not ours 
I’d suggest contacting the relevant utility company for drains out in your area. They can confirm, usually using their own data, what’s what on site 

landless

Hi, my neighbour has a right of way across our property, to a shed he owns, he has owned his house since about 1990 so his deeds are not held by the Land Registry. He has started using his right of way at all times of the day and night to harrass us, there is nothing in our deeds about his ROW so how do we find out what his rights are i.e times he his allowed to use it etc.

Land_Registry

landless said:

Hi, my neighbour has a right of way across our property, to a shed he owns, he has owned his house since about 1990 so his deeds are not held by the Land Registry. He has started using his right of way at all times of the day and night to harrass us, there is nothing in our deeds about his ROW so how do we find out what his rights are i.e times he his allowed to use it etc.

If it’s unregistered, and your title makes no mention, then you are reliant on him to prove the right exists in law. To start with you’d ask him to provide legal evidence that the right exists. 

Clearly if he’s harassing you it seems likely he’ll say No and you need to then seek legal advise. Such advise may simply involve your solicitor writing to him to ask the same Q but it moves matters to a new stage. 

Advice is always to try and resolve matters amicably but if it’s being used to harass then there must be wider reasons behind the harassment that also need resolving