Land Registry questions

Land_Registry

Charlies_Mum_2 said:

Hi Land registry,
we’ve recently completed on a house that wasn’t registered with yourselves - is that legal please?
Thank you.

Yes. Just means your solicitor dealt with original deeds and documents instead of an electronic title. Your seller will have owned it for 30+ years 

Land_Registry

BARGAINMAD_2 said:

Hello - I'm getting conflicting information from the Land Registry on something which I understand is quite straightforward. 

I was told a few months ago my husband needed to complete forms AS1 and AP1.  My husband and his brother inherited their father's property jointly and were executors.  My husband bought his brother out and he now wants the property transferred into his name. 

It is currently in his deceased's father's and mothers names.   There is no mortgage. 

I phoned the LR this morning with a query re the AP1 form and the lady told me if money had changed hands it should be a TR1 form instead of AP1 but most of the content will be the same.  

At the end of the call she said it was our choice which forms to use and which way to deal with it.  She said the LR don't need to know that any money changed hands and we could leave this out on the AP1 form.   The half share was £124 so I don't think stamp duty will apply, especially as it's an inherited property. 


I'm confused about what is the best thing to do!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 

First thing to mention is that the form AP1 is an application form. The forms TR1 and AS1 are legal deeds so a Transfer and an Assent. They both transfer the legal ownership. 

An AS1 is only ever used by an executor to transfer the legal ownership of the whole property to a beneficiary. For any other type of transfer of the whole property you would use a TR1. 

As my colleague will have tried to explain we are not privy to what wider financial arrangements the beneficiaries might have made in your case. If we get an AS1 from an executor transferring to beneficiary A then we don’t know if there was a beneficiary B. We don’t consider the will for example. 

So if there were two beneficiaries and one is buying out the other then our assisted guidance explains what’s required 
https://customerhelp.landregistry.gov.uk/guide-page-external/?stepid=2a7a55c0-8e82-eb11-a812-000d3ad48f95&kbonly=true&setanswer=

Land_Registry

RosesTin said:

Hi Land Registry,

We're currently in the process of buying a house Title number; NT337455. There's currently an enquiry with Land registry regarding possible removal of an expired mining lease referred to under the title's charge register. Unfortunately the vendor's solicitor isn't very forthcoming with information. Is there any chance you have an update or possible timeframe?

Many Thanks.

Looks like they’ve made an enquiry on 1st March. Colleagues will respond shortly. The enquiry was to ask if the lease had been determined and if not was it registered in its own right. 

Our answer will be along the lines of it’s not registered in it’s own right and we would have no record of it being determined. We would only know that if an application were actually made to cancel the entry along with supporting evidence to prove it had been determined (come to an end) 
As you are the buyer I’d suggest discussing with your conveyancer options such as an indemnity policy to insure against any perceived risk(s) they/your lender may consider exist with regards the entry/the lease 

Land_Registry

Land_Registry said:

MandyNau said:

Hello again!

So appears part of that application was completed but apparently another part is still outstanding which is also required. What fun! Would you be able check TY581072 for me and confirm of this is expedited/in progress?

many thanks again

Mandy

That title affects 368 and we contacted conveyancer on 15th Feb for more 

Hello again

Apparently the solicitors have answered all the questions start of the week.  Could you let me know if this is showing as received and that the  case is still expedited? Unsure what to expect at this stage in regards to turn around times but just wanted to check at least its now back with LR and being processed.
thanks
Mandu

Looks like we’ve had a reply so will check with colleagues re likely remaining timescale 

It’s been completed this morning 

noclaf

Hi,

My mother and father own a house as 'Tenants in Common' per the house deeds and they are legally separated/marriage annulled over 20 years back.

My father passed away in 2020, probate was concluded end of last year. My father's share of the property (50% per his will) has/will passed to myself as instructed in his will. I was not an executor on my father's will (I was a beneficiary) however I have all the documentation relating to probate and death certificates etc.

My mother is in a care home and I was assigned as a 'deputy' to manage her property and affairs as she was deemed to 'lack mental capacity' by doctors.  She owns the other 50% or at least that's how both parents wills have been set out.

I need to update the house deeds by removing my father's name and adding my own name. How do I go about doing this, can I do this myself or will it need a solicitor. I am happy to fill out forms but just need to understand what the Land Registry requires to make these updates?

Thanks

Land_Registry

noclaf said:

Hi,

My mother and father own a house as 'Tenants in Common' per the house deeds and they are legally separated/marriage annulled over 20 years back.

My father passed away in 2020, probate was concluded end of last year. My father's share of the property (50% per his will) has/will passed to myself as instructed in his will. I was not an executor on my father's will (I was a beneficiary) however I have all the documentation relating to probate and death certificates etc.

My mother is in a care home and I was assigned as a 'deputy' to manage her property and affairs as she was deemed to 'lack mental capacity' by doctors.  She owns the other 50% or at least that's how both parents wills have been set out.

I need to update the house deeds by removing my father's name and adding my own name. How do I go about doing this, can I do this myself or will it need a solicitor. I am happy to fill out forms but just need to understand what the Land Registry requires to make these updates?

Thanks

When your Father died the legal ownership passed to your Mother as the surviving joint owner. You clearly understand that the beneficial ownership/will relates to the beneficial estates. 

So if the legal ownership is to be transferred it is your Mother who needs to do that. And if that’s from her to just you or from her to the two of you then legal assistance is recommended 
Our guidance explains how a property can be transferred 
https://www.gov.uk/registering-land-or-property-with-land-registry/transfer-ownership-of-your-property
And our PG 8 section 9 explains more re the powers/execution by a deputy for example 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/execution-of-deeds

I would always advise seeking legal advice/assistance in such cases as well 

noclaf

Land_Registry said:

noclaf said:

Hi,

My mother and father own a house as 'Tenants in Common' per the house deeds and they are legally separated/marriage annulled over 20 years back.

My father passed away in 2020, probate was concluded end of last year. My father's share of the property (50% per his will) has/will passed to myself as instructed in his will. I was not an executor on my father's will (I was a beneficiary) however I have all the documentation relating to probate and death certificates etc.

My mother is in a care home and I was assigned as a 'deputy' to manage her property and affairs as she was deemed to 'lack mental capacity' by doctors.  She owns the other 50% or at least that's how both parents wills have been set out.

I need to update the house deeds by removing my father's name and adding my own name. How do I go about doing this, can I do this myself or will it need a solicitor. I am happy to fill out forms but just need to understand what the Land Registry requires to make these updates?

Thanks

When your Father died the legal ownership passed to your Mother as the surviving joint owner. You clearly understand that the beneficial ownership/will relates to the beneficial estates. 

So if the legal ownership is to be transferred it is your Mother who needs to do that. And if that’s from her to just you or from her to the two of you then legal assistance is recommended 
Our guidance explains how a property can be transferred 
https://www.gov.uk/registering-land-or-property-with-land-registry/transfer-ownership-of-your-property
And our PG 8 section 9 explains more re the powers/execution by a deputy for example 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/execution-of-deeds

I would always advise seeking legal advice/assistance in such cases as well 

Thanks, I was completely unaware there were two distinct ownership aspects to consider ( legal and beneficial) so this is v. helpful. I will read the links and may seek advice/assistance if this starts to resemble a legal minefield!

Just to add if it wasn't clear on my OP, my parents are not 'joint owners' as a restriction was added to the deeds in 2020 to reflect that the joint tenancy was severed (this was done with the help of a legal professional)

On a separate note, having a property deed without my name on it, one deceased parent and another who lacks mental capacity...do you think this creates any additional risk for potential fraud e.g: criminals trying to change the deeds to steal the property etc

Slithery

noclaf said:

On a separate note, having a property deed without my name on it, one deceased parent and another who lacks mental capacity...do you think this creates any additional risk for potential fraud e.g: criminals trying to change the deeds to steal the property etc

Set up a LR property alert. That way you'll be notified before something happens...

https://propertyalert.landregistry.gov.uk/

Land_Registry

noclaf said:

Land_Registry said:

noclaf said:

Hi,

My mother and father own a house as 'Tenants in Common' per the house deeds and they are legally separated/marriage annulled over 20 years back.

My father passed away in 2020, probate was concluded end of last year. My father's share of the property (50% per his will) has/will passed to myself as instructed in his will. I was not an executor on my father's will (I was a beneficiary) however I have all the documentation relating to probate and death certificates etc.

My mother is in a care home and I was assigned as a 'deputy' to manage her property and affairs as she was deemed to 'lack mental capacity' by doctors.  She owns the other 50% or at least that's how both parents wills have been set out.

I need to update the house deeds by removing my father's name and adding my own name. How do I go about doing this, can I do this myself or will it need a solicitor. I am happy to fill out forms but just need to understand what the Land Registry requires to make these updates?

Thanks

When your Father died the legal ownership passed to your Mother as the surviving joint owner. You clearly understand that the beneficial ownership/will relates to the beneficial estates. 

So if the legal ownership is to be transferred it is your Mother who needs to do that. And if that’s from her to just you or from her to the two of you then legal assistance is recommended 
Our guidance explains how a property can be transferred 
https://www.gov.uk/registering-land-or-property-with-land-registry/transfer-ownership-of-your-property
And our PG 8 section 9 explains more re the powers/execution by a deputy for example 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/execution-of-deeds

I would always advise seeking legal advice/assistance in such cases as well 

Thanks, I was completely unaware there were two distinct ownership aspects to consider ( legal and beneficial) so this is v. helpful. I will read the links and may seek advice/assistance if this starts to resemble a legal minefield!

Just to add if it wasn't clear on my OP, my parents are not 'joint owners' as a restriction was added to the deeds in 2020 to reflect that the joint tenancy was severed (this was done with the help of a legal professional)

On a separate note, having a property deed without my name on it, one deceased parent and another who lacks mental capacity...do you think this creates any additional risk for potential fraud e.g: criminals trying to change the deeds to steal the property etc

Any risks tend to start with an awareness of the families personal circumstances and/or identity theft for example. There’s no additional risk re who is or isn’t named on the register as that is largely factual information used for every property transaction 
It’s always something to be wary of and as Slithery posts setting up a Property Alert would be a sensible thing to do in this case. 

That works by alerting you to any significant application being submitted to us re the property title - it doesn’t alert you to anyone checking the information but would alert you if for example someone (inc you) submitted an application to update the register. 

noclaf

Land_Registry said:

noclaf said:

Land_Registry said:

noclaf said:

Hi,

My mother and father own a house as 'Tenants in Common' per the house deeds and they are legally separated/marriage annulled over 20 years back.

My father passed away in 2020, probate was concluded end of last year. My father's share of the property (50% per his will) has/will passed to myself as instructed in his will. I was not an executor on my father's will (I was a beneficiary) however I have all the documentation relating to probate and death certificates etc.

My mother is in a care home and I was assigned as a 'deputy' to manage her property and affairs as she was deemed to 'lack mental capacity' by doctors.  She owns the other 50% or at least that's how both parents wills have been set out.

I need to update the house deeds by removing my father's name and adding my own name. How do I go about doing this, can I do this myself or will it need a solicitor. I am happy to fill out forms but just need to understand what the Land Registry requires to make these updates?

Thanks

When your Father died the legal ownership passed to your Mother as the surviving joint owner. You clearly understand that the beneficial ownership/will relates to the beneficial estates. 

So if the legal ownership is to be transferred it is your Mother who needs to do that. And if that’s from her to just you or from her to the two of you then legal assistance is recommended 
Our guidance explains how a property can be transferred 
https://www.gov.uk/registering-land-or-property-with-land-registry/transfer-ownership-of-your-property
And our PG 8 section 9 explains more re the powers/execution by a deputy for example 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/execution-of-deeds

I would always advise seeking legal advice/assistance in such cases as well 

Thanks, I was completely unaware there were two distinct ownership aspects to consider ( legal and beneficial) so this is v. helpful. I will read the links and may seek advice/assistance if this starts to resemble a legal minefield!

Just to add if it wasn't clear on my OP, my parents are not 'joint owners' as a restriction was added to the deeds in 2020 to reflect that the joint tenancy was severed (this was done with the help of a legal professional)

On a separate note, having a property deed without my name on it, one deceased parent and another who lacks mental capacity...do you think this creates any additional risk for potential fraud e.g: criminals trying to change the deeds to steal the property etc

Any risks tend to start with an awareness of the families personal circumstances and/or identity theft for example. There’s no additional risk re who is or isn’t named on the register as that is largely factual information used for every property transaction 
It’s always something to be wary of and as Slithery posts setting up a Property Alert would be a sensible thing to do in this case. 

That works by alerting you to any significant application being submitted to us re the property title - it doesn’t alert you to anyone checking the information but would alert you if for example someone (inc you) submitted an application to update the register. 

Thanks, will looking into the alert suggestion by Slithery.
When my father passed away, assumed I would need to update my name on the deeds asap however I was advised by a legal professional that there was no immediate rush and as the probate documents and my father's will proves the intention to pass his share of the house to me that is the 'proof' if needed.
The stories one hears about innocent folks properties being sold without their knowledge due to fraudsters.... that's rather worrying hence my push to have the deeds updated but as I live in the property and will setup the alert hopefully can mitigate that risk without the need to start incurring legal fees to have the deeds updated.
In summary, I do not plan to sell the property anytime soon (I live there too with family) so if no immediate need to update the deeds I will hold off.