For those nearing/in retirement who decided against having children...

Not_Me_Officer

Wow. I never thought i'd get home from work and have as many replies as this.
Thanks for taking the time.

First off i want to touch on the following quote because i knew sooner or later it would come up...

Pollycat wrote: »

To view having children as a way of not being alone when your partner dies is very wrong.
And flawed.

Firstly my response isn't directed at you Pollycat but i was ready for this to be said in the thread.
See you could have this conversation with anyone who came to your house. Friend, relative, co-worker, whoever, and you would make a comment like i did and the other person i would guarantee would know exactly where you're coming from with it & wouldn't even pay the comment any mind.

Let's assume for examples sake that i die first.

So i would say to the person sat in the room with me about how at least my wife would have [our child] once i'm gone - there'd be someone there for her. It's just a throwaway comment really.

Of course this is all probably. The child may die before that day, they may move to the other side of the world, who knows, but it's just something that would cross your mind at the stage we're at.

And the other person would likely nod and you'd both agree that it'd be nice that she (my wife) would at least have our child around so she wasn't totally alone once i'm gone and that's it, the conversation would move on. The child wouldn't be there to care for you as in that is their purpose. Of course not.



However...

say that kind of thing on the internet & people seem to think you're spelling out that that is the only reason you're having a child, or at least a very strong reason for having one.

This is just something i've noticed with the difference between chatting offline and online. Little things like this.

Now i'm not saying you think we're thinking that way Pollycat but i just want to comment on it before anyone takes it anywhere

Anyway, i pretty much have to have this conversation ONline if i'm going to have it since everyone i know in the age bracket i'm asking ...... has kids :rotfl:

Not_Me_Officer

silvercar wrote: »

If it's partly a financial worry, have you costed up all the child tax credits, child benefit and childcare help you would get? For someone on relatively low incomes these would really help.

I haven't actually. I wouldn't rely on it just like now i'm reading into retirement planning - i'm not relying on the state pension. I'm calculating as though i wont even get one so that if it's there come my time it'll just be a nice bonus.

Besides, i did a working tax credits quote and i don't know if i entered details wrong but it said i would be entitled to nothing.

Red-Squirrel wrote: »

If you aren't 100% certain it's what you absolutely definitely want, don't do it. Not fair on the resulting child.

If you regret not doing it, only you suffer.

If you regret doing it, well...

You're chatting to the worlds worst procrastinator. If i didn't do things i wasn't 100% sure about i'd not get much done There comes a time where you just decide and just do and stick with it.

There's plenty of people out there who had their reservations and it turned out just fine.

Likewise there's plenty of people out there i'm sure .... who were sure and ended up regretting it totally.

In other words there's no black and white rule.

Not_Me_Officer

justme111 wrote: »

NMO, it's me again
Can you think of choices you made your life that you regret now?

A few.

I'm not one of those people who likes to throw cliches around too much such as never have regrets.

I chose to stop education at 6th form level. I wish i'd have gone on further ... but then i probably wouldn't have met my wife.

I don't like things being pushed my way so when my parents (typically my dad) kept pushing "you need to go get a trade" at me constantly, i did the exact opposite. He was right and i was stupid. On the topic of my dad i regret our early relationship but i'm glad we were able to get along when i turned into an adult. I regret the fall out we had in the days leading up to his death but so glad i swallowed pride and actually spoke well with him the day before he died, even if it was only a very brief conversation, not knowing he was even close to dying so soon.

There's a few, i could probably think of more.

I appreciate there's people who can make a decision and not look back. I overthink .... massively. I can say now that if we don't have one i'm sure i'll get to later life and wonder if it was the better choice. Likewise if we do have one. Note - i said better choice, not right choice.

chesky wrote: »

PS I really, really don't expect or want either of them to care for me in my declining years. I hope to god that I just don't wake up one morning. But if I do start to lose my marbles or generally am unable to cope, then I'll just check into care.

I should stress that it isn't a reason why we would have a child but it is something that we think about. I thought others would think about later life too but maybe i am too detailed? Maybe i think too much? I'm often told i do.
On the topic of care though my nan recently was in the care circle. Had it not been for her children then we don't think she'd have made it through. The level of poor care she received was ridiculous. I don't really want to go too much into detail but it was shocking to the point of dangerous to her health/life.

Again i'm not saying it's a reason to have children but it's a good job that in my nans case that she did have her kids around because without them she wouldn't have had a clue what was going on and would've had nobody to speak for her.

You hear stories about bad care all the time & unfortunately those are the headline grabbing stories rather than the good quality care. I just hope i never wind up in that situation. I think i'd rather be hit by a bus than go through what she did.

Not_Me_Officer

Gavin83 wrote: »

Saying that if your approaching this in such a logical way then maybe it isn't for you. Having children has always seemed far from a logical decision and more just an inbuilt desire.

This is something i'm getting a lot of.

As time goes on i think it's just because i look at things differently to most people i guess. Others seem to believe you should either have a burning desire ... or not ... and that's the rule.

For me i think it's good enough to want a child and that weighing up the impact that will have throughout your life and making a decision based on that doesn't necessarily mean you don't want them, i think it's being sensible.

A relative of mine wanted a child just so she could get a house. She even went on Facebook saying so. Went and found herself a guy, 9 months later she had what she needed to just get a house, don't even ask if she stayed with the guy (i imagine single mothers get more help than couples?). Like i said she even went on Facebook admitting all this, I kid you not.

Now that's something i wouldn't do ... but it was their choice & their way of looking at it that was right for them. Not me.

Likewise my way of looking at things is right for me. It may not be the way most people approach things but it's my way.

FBaby wrote: »

I agree that approaching the decision to have or not to have children can't be as black or white as you seen to consider it. It's more a case of what decision you go with, you make your bed in it and make the best of it.

Exactly this.

We had the chat and said that whatever we decide - yes or no, we put everything in to it and try not to live life thinking what if we'd chosen the other option.
Likewise if when we finally do decide, one of us decides yes and the other decides no then it has to be a no. For it to be a yes both of us have to agree yes.

I know that last bit will raise eyebrows but i believe our relationship is very strong and we will be staying together regardless.

Not_Me_Officer

*Robin* wrote: »

David Attenborough said quite recently, that there are now twice as many people on our planet as there were when he began his career.
Twice as many within one man's working lifespan!
..It seems clear the human race cannot allow this exponential growth in numbers to continue if there is to be any decent future at all for our race's descendants, other living beings or indeed the planet itself.

I want to reply to this idea in its own post too.

Now i respect anyone who has that stance - that is their decision and it works for them. That is fine.

But it's not relevant to our decision making.

If we decide to have one or not, not a fraction of the decision will be based on world population i can guarantee that.

Not_Me_Officer

NeilCr wrote: »

She doesn't believe in regrets and I'm beginning to get on the same wavelength. You can't change what has happened - or not happened - it's best to try and live in the moment - not anticipating what may happen, either

Hopefully i can tune in one day. It would make things much easier for me I try to think like you. You sound very much like my dad's way of thinking and my brother seems to have got that too. Just get on, make your decisions, make the best of them & move forward.

catkins wrote: »

I am a great worrier

So maybe you can understand a bit where i'm coming from then? Since we seem to share that in common

I am just so glad when I look at things like the terrorist attacks, global warming, the extinction of so many animals and problems in this country re housing, jobs etc that we didn't bring any children into the world

My wife raised this point to me when we were talking about +/-

No timeframe has been perfect though has it?

If those during WW2 thought they didn't want to bring a child into such chaos then i would've never been born.
There's been plenty wrong with the world throughout the years... but people still have children, the world still turns & we're all here today. Unfortunately i seem to have picked up my mothers side.

Jenniefour wrote: »

Here's another perspective. It's not necessarily how much you earn over your lifetime that will determine how much money you have when you retire - it's what choices you make about what to do with your income when you're of working age that can affect how much you have to retire on. How much of your money you hold onto and put to work for the future. That includes what choices you make now - are you going to be happy with a relatively inexpensive 3 year old car or do you want a top of range BMW, for example.

So, yes, children do cost money but you've asked a hugely complex question, parts of which there are no easy answers to, and is more dependent on how you make choices, how willing to take risk and so on. So, it's not necessarily helpful to see having children (or not) as defining your much longer term future financially. And another factor is what curveballs might be thrown at you - bad and good - that were not within your control at all, and how you cope with these and decisions you make about what to do.

Thanks Jennie.

I can't disagree with a word you said. Spot on.

I know you were just throwing examples but i'm not a big spender at all. Same car for the past 8 years, make dinners for work, don't smoke, barely drink, don't have big holidays - we stay within the UK, i could go on. To the outsider i appreciate we can be seen as boring, but it works for us and to be quite honest we don't really care what the outsider thinks Well, my wife does a little at times but i most certainly do not at any time.

If you really, really want a baby, then have one. If not, don't.

I'm not really the sort of person who goes and gets just because they want though tbh. I know plenty do and i'm honestly not criticising them.

I'd really really like a fast car for example. I'm mid 30s, have always had A-B motors. Nothing flash. I like cars, i'm interested in them and i'd really like something fast.

But that doesn't mean it's a good idea. I've decided against it because it'd impact on my life in such a way that means it's just best i don't get what i want in that case.

FBaby wrote: »

It's interesting that it seems to be more childless people who have been told this. I've never heard this once. So either they feel they can be honest to people without being judge as parents would, or they say it because they think that doing so will make childless people feel better!

There are actually honest people out there. Not to say that all the "i wouldn't change it for the world" people are lying. I'm sure the vast majority are not. What i AM saying is that i bet there's plenty of parents out there who do regret either having kids totally or regret at least one of theirs but feel by saying so they would be judged (not to mention it may upset the kids) so they just stay quiet.

We know a mother who has 3. First child = great. Third child = great. Middle child = devil child. Openly admit to regretting that one and that they don't particularly like that child.

Not many would do that.

FBaby

I think many parents might experience the feeling of regret at some specific point in their lives, does this mean they live with that regret every minute of their lives?

I 'regretted' my kids twice, both times was when I was feeling totally overwhelmed, sleep deprived and lonely looking after them when they suffered the worse possibly colic and just didn't stop crying. At that time, I fantasized that a fairy came and took them away. A day later, and I would have felt like murdering anyone trying to take them away!

Although having children very much comes down to an urge, whether biological or else, and that it then becomes a case of going along with it, it doesn't take away the fact that you owe your children to do everything you can to give them the best start in life.

The issue are those who decide to have kids for such reasons as getting extra benefits/house/a man staying etc... and when they do, feel that they just have to provide minimum parental care to their kids. I feel for those kids who are born to parents who are blase at the prospect of raising their kids, and feel that as long as they provide the basic essentials, they are doing their job. Those are the kids who grow up to become adults with problems.

Being a good parent is incredibly hard work, so if you are not prepared to put the work in, don't do it. Of course, like most things we put the effort in, the rewards are great, and I personally have found that there is little that brings more exhilaration than the pride I feel for my children.

Pollycat

Not_Me_Officer wrote: »

Wow. I never thought i'd get home from work and have as many replies as this.
Thanks for taking the time.

First off i want to touch on the following quote because i knew sooner or later it would come up...



Firstly my response isn't directed at you Pollycat but i was ready for this to be said in the thread.
See you could have this conversation with anyone who came to your house. Friend, relative, co-worker, whoever, and you would make a comment like i did and the other person i would guarantee would know exactly where you're coming from with it & wouldn't even pay the comment any mind.

Let's assume for examples sake that i die first.

So i would say to the person sat in the room with me about how at least my wife would have [our child] once i'm gone - there'd be someone there for her. It's just a throwaway comment really.

Of course this is all probably. The child may die before that day, they may move to the other side of the world, who knows, but it's just something that would cross your mind at the stage we're at.

And the other person would likely nod and you'd both agree that it'd be nice that she (my wife) would at least have our child around so she wasn't totally alone once i'm gone and that's it, the conversation would move on. The child wouldn't be there to care for you as in that is their purpose. Of course not.



However...

say that kind of thing on the internet & people seem to think you're spelling out that that is the only reason you're having a child, or at least a very strong reason for having one.

This is just something i've noticed with the difference between chatting offline and online. Little things like this.

Now i'm not saying you think we're thinking that way Pollycat but i just want to comment on it before anyone takes it anywhere

Anyway, i pretty much have to have this conversation ONline if i'm going to have it since everyone i know in the age bracket i'm asking ...... has kids :rotfl:

OK - as I've already posted, I don't have kids and never wanted kids.

I never, ever thought - even briefly - about what happens when me or my partner dies.
It's never concerned me, it's never concerned my OH.

I've never thought about what life (including later life) would be without having any.
We're too busy enjoying life without kids and grand-kids.

If a friend or acquaintance had said to me in RL what you posted on here, my response would have been exactly the same.
If you'd have given the example of a poorly elderly relative, described how her children look out for her and go on to say 'it's not the reason you have kids but without them you begin to think about what life (including later life) would be without having any', I'd know exactly where you were coming from.

lobbyludd

Having children is very hard: I can't emphasise this enough. It can be brutal, monotonous and dull. It can also bring indescribable joy, and laughter and contentment, but I have never known such depth of pain before I had children.

And primarily for me, and most people I know it is hard emotionally: it is brutal to watch them suffering and know you cannot (or in some cases should not) do anything to remove that suffering. The worry when they go through their firsts (argument with friend, time at school, out on their own). Having to make decisions that will shape someone else's life and emotional well-being without ever knowing for certain you are doing the right thing. "Making the decision to have a child - it is momentous. It is to decide forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body".

you have to be selfless when you are ill, when you are so exhausted you can barely function, when you feel you have nothing left to give, they will need one more thing.

I don't know - whilst it is of course everyone's own decision, I feel that the pre-requisite needs to be that both of you really want a child before you to make the decision to have one.

After that, then look at the practicalities, and find out if it is affordable etc re whether you should have one. So is it the case that you both really want to have a child but are dithering on whether you should? or are you undecided on whether you want one?

Forgive me, but almost all of your arguments so far for having them or not don't so far seem to have much of an insight into how it will really be emotionally either for yourself or for them. I wonder if you have nephews and nieces?

e.g. "not to mention it may upset the kids" was this tongue in cheek? - because it would be devastating for them to know, or suspect (and they would) that you regretted having them. If you have a child and regret it, it will primarily be awful for the child, you could ruin the entire course of their life.

Also - not to derail the thread - it's quite probable that the person you reference did not have a child just to get a house - whatever she said on facebook. I've known a family member who says this, but the truth is she was trying to fill an enormous emotional void - she dearly wanted a child, but she's not going to let everyone know that because the reasons are far too painful, and deep down she knew it was selfish to do this, and she struggles to parent because of those reasons.

Ilona

Thank you lobbylud for being honest, you give the exact reasons why I decided against having children. I knew I would not be emotionally competent at caring for another human being for the first 18 years of it's life. After seeing my mother go through emotional turmoil bringing up three of us, I knew it wasn't for me.

There was a time when I was in my forties that I thought if ever there was going to be the right time, this was it. I had done most of what I wanted to do. However there was no decision to be made, I was sterilized when I was 37. That was the right decision then, and I have never regretted it.

Ilona