Add your feedback on energy supplier Tonik

Talldave

Mabel2012 said:

I was planning on switching to another supplier as soon as I got an up to date statement. I now have an additional problem. My last meter reading was lower than the previous one. Because it's a clocks meter I take a photo of it each month so I can study it after getting up from my knees at the low cupboard where the meter is located. The photos show the meter recorded a lower reading in March than February or else all my previous readings were wrong. Tonik say it's going backwards and are going to replace it in a couple of weeks. I think the new one will be a smart meter. I will have to agree a closing figure for the old meter. I now feel I should scrutinise the readings for the past year more closely as the meter is very old and may have gone wrong before. Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

I don't want to appear in any way critical or rude, but is there a chance you could have misread the dials on the meter at some point, especially as alternate dials rotate in opposite directions?  Happy to help double check the reads if you were able to upload photos. 

Mabel2012

Talldave said:

I don't want to appear in any way critical or rude, but is there a chance you could have misread the dials on the meter at some point, especially as alternate dials rotate in opposite directions?  Happy to help double check the reads if you were able to upload photos. 

A good point.

Early last year I input a reading and I got a message saying it was unusually high and to check it again. I checked the meter again, the hand was on the second and third dial was on the number and I wasn't really sure of the reading. I took a photo and uploaded it to Tonik and they corrected it downwards. Because the meter is in a very low cupboard and is almost inaccessible I take a photo of the meter every month so I can see the reading in comfort. I have kept the photos and sent the last three to Tonik.  I rechecked it about 2 weeks after the very low reading and it has stopped going backwards and it seems to be working. They checked my photos and accept that the meter is faulty, without argument. 

In a case like this, how is a final reading for the faulty meter agreed.

inspectorperez

Mabel2012 said:

Talldave said:

I don't want to appear in any way critical or rude, but is there a chance you could have misread the dials on the meter at some point, especially as alternate dials rotate in opposite directions?  Happy to help double check the reads if you were able to upload photos. 

A good point.

Early last year I input a reading and I got a message saying it was unusually high and to check it again. I checked the meter again, the hand was on the second and third dial was on the number and I wasn't really sure of the reading. I took a photo and uploaded it to Tonik and they corrected it downwards. Because the meter is in a very low cupboard and is almost inaccessible I take a photo of the meter every month so I can see the reading in comfort. I have kept the photos and sent the last three to Tonik.  I rechecked it about 2 weeks after the very low reading and it has stopped going backwards and it seems to be working. They checked my photos and accept that the meter is faulty, without argument. 

In a case like this, how is a final reading for the faulty meter agreed.

My understanding of the protocol when switching to another supplier is that your final readings (assuming dual fuel) are provided by the customer to the new supplier. The new supplier passes these readings to an independent Data service provider who either accepts the readings or substitutes their own estimates if the actual readings are outside certain parameters. These readings are then sent to the previous supplier who is bound to use them for the purposes of the final account in the knowledge that the readings will also be used by the new supplier for billing purposes. This provides assurance that the closing and opening readings are consistent, if that makes sense.

It does of course mean that there are winners and losers so far as the two respective supply companies are concerned. The customer might also wish to appeal against the use of an estimate which has been substituted for an actual consumer reading, but such appeal would only be allowed to progress if the difference were outside pre determined tolerances.

In your own case, I think this could be really tricky, and you might just be tempted to stay with the same company until your meter issue was sorted out. If you have been with the company for a reasonable period of time, are you able to review previous bills in a period of time when you knew for certain that the meter readings were correct. If so, it might be possible to forensically build up a profile of your annual usage by reference to the four seasons of the year which would be a starting point for calculating broadly what your consumption figures ought to be and are they consistent for a dwelling such as your own with x number of occupants.

Mabel2012

OK......I switched to Tonik a year ago so I have the past years readings. I was with Bristol before that and did not have any problems accepting their final reading. Just glancing at the years readings they seem a bit uneven, even in the same season. I must confess I didn't notice at the time as each bill was broadly in line with the direct debit. I asked Tonik to provide a summary of monthly useage so I can check it. I haven't had the time to do the sums myself as I'm now involved with a Community Help Group trying to help people who are self isolating.

Talldave

inspectorperez said:

It does of course mean that there are winners and losers so far as the two respective supply companies are concerned. The customer might also wish to appeal against the use of an estimate which has been substituted for an actual consumer reading, but such appeal would only be allowed to progress if the difference were outside pre determined tolerances.

What's frustrating for consumers is that even a time stamped photograph isn't good enough if you're outside appeal territory. 
These validation organisations are not fit for purpose - they don't allow for a change of residents in a property.  If you move into a property where the previous occupants had the heating running 24/7, you'll find your usage is being continuously over estimated as you switch suppliers. And if you're switching to cheaper suppliers you're always forced to pay for more energy from the more expensive supplier you're leaving than you've actually used. Nobody cares.
One benefit of smart metering is that these organisations will be out of business. Good riddance I say.

inspectorperez

Talldave said:

inspectorperez said:

It does of course mean that there are winners and losers so far as the two respective supply companies are concerned. The customer might also wish to appeal against the use of an estimate which has been substituted for an actual consumer reading, but such appeal would only be allowed to progress if the difference were outside pre determined tolerances.

What's frustrating for consumers is that even a time stamped photograph isn't good enough if you're outside appeal territory. 
These validation organisations are not fit for purpose - they don't allow for a change of residents in a property.  If you move into a property where the previous occupants had the heating running 24/7, you'll find your usage is being continuously over estimated as you switch suppliers. And if you're switching to cheaper suppliers you're always forced to pay for more energy from the more expensive supplier you're leaving than you've actually used. Nobody cares.
One benefit of smart metering is that these organisations will be out of business. Good riddance I say.

Couldn't agree more!!

The saddo that I am, I have a detailed spreadsheet going back over the years which records regular consumption figures based on actual meter readings. The ups and downs are explained by seasonal factors of course and also kids coming and going as they move around the country with careers etc and then return home to "base camp" every so often.

Its just so annoying when the integrity of detailed record keeping like this is flawed by these organisations.

As you say, smart meters should in theory eliminate such issues, but I really don't want one yet until the SMET 2 versions are proved to be reliable and compatible with all utility suppliers. Even then I might be reluctant if there was ever a hint that they might be used to target peak usage with higher tariff rates. Overnight charging of EV's would be the classic where you might be exposed to higher rates.

Talldave

Agree, the UK's smart meter rollout is a shambolic mess mis-managed by organisations who mostly don't know what they're doing.

But the demise of the meter reading mangling bodies would be a glimmer of satisfaction in amongst the mess.

I too keep spreadsheets of consumption (and more recently to track free electricity from Symbio's broken billing system) and have previously sent them to a supplier who wouldn't believe our consumption was so low compared to previous tenants who had an immersion heater running 24/7 because they didn't realise some muppet had incorrectly wired the 3 port valve on the heating system so you couldn't heat water with gas!

Mabel2012

Talldave said:

I too keep spreadsheets of consumption

I

inspectorperez said:

The saddo that I am, I have a detailed spreadsheet going back over the years which records regular consumption figures based on actual meter readings. The ups and downs are explained by seasonal factors

I used to be good at spreadsheets when Excel was the spreadsheet of choice and I used them every day at work.. Back then I had  2 month payment on receipt energy bills.I used to check the calculation with a pen and paper. I was  more cash strapped then with a high mortgage. Now I just look at the total. I haven't worried because my bills have reduced each year since I started switching. Can you suggest a simple to use free spreadsheet for me to use to try and work out if the final reading they quote is reasonable.
Who are the validation organisations who will arbitrate in disputes. Are they part of Ofgem.

inspectorperez

Mabel2012 said:

Talldave said:

I too keep spreadsheets of consumption

I

inspectorperez said:

The saddo that I am, I have a detailed spreadsheet going back over the years which records regular consumption figures based on actual meter readings. The ups and downs are explained by seasonal factors

I used to be good at spreadsheets when Excel was the spreadsheet of choice and I used them every day at work.. Back then I had  2 month payment on receipt energy bills.I used to check the calculation with a pen and paper. I was  more cash strapped then with a high mortgage. Now I just look at the total. I haven't worried because my bills have reduced each year since I started switching. Can you suggest a simple to use free spreadsheet for me to use to try and work out if the final reading they quote is reasonable.
Who are the validation organisations who will arbitrate in disputes. Are they part of Ofgem.

I use a Microsoft excel spreadsheet which I created myself to record gas and electric usage. It is formatted in a way to calculate the consumption cost for each fuel on a month by month basis and it is also a useful forecasting tool if you are shopping around for the best deal.

If you haven't got access to Microsoft office products on your computer, you could always download free software such as Libreoffice and I believe Google docs also have a spreadsheet product which again is freeware.

I am not so sure who the validation organisations are, but to the best of my knowledge they are completely independent of the supply companies and OFGEM. Talldave may know more about them than I do

Telegraph_Sam

I likewise developed my own Excel spreadsheet, gradually refined over time, mainly to cross check what the various search engines were forecasting for each provider and in particular to rubbish the claimed "savings" figures.  I don't think the system allows me to include it as an attachment though.