Giving a friend lifts to work, am I wrong for charging him?

Pollycat

FBaby wrote: »

Don't understand why the mutuality has to be on exactly the same basis. Friends can help each other in different ways because the need might be different.

From what the OP has posted - and that's what I'm going by, not projecting all sorts of unconfirmed scenarios - he has been financially generous to this person.

I simply can't conceive any of my friends accepting me buying them things if they were perhaps easier to pay for on my card, and when offering me the money keeping it because I'd told them not to worry about it, I wasn't bothered.

And I wouldn't treat them in that way either.

There would be some quid pro quo somewhere along the line - on both sides.

And FTR, if I'd been working at a particular place for a few years and had a bus pass and was used to making my own way to work, I'd never ask someone to give me a lift. I'd wait for them to offer.

FBaby wrote: »

Don't understand why the mutuality has to be on exactly the same basis. Friends can help each other in different ways because the need might be different.

Of course if all the favours are always one direction, this doesn't apply, but then why remain friend at all in this instance? We don't know what the friend is doing or not.

Of course we don't know what the friend is doing (or not).
But I'm not prepared to speculate on anything other than what the OP has posted.

FBaby wrote: »

but OP says they have been friends for many years, which in my mind is very different.

"Many years"?
Is that really what the OP has said?

Jlawson118 wrote: »

I have a friend who I've known for around 8 years but I've only really been close to him in the last 3/4 years.

I personally wouldn't class 3-4 years as 'many'.

Pop_Up_Pirate

Jlawson118 wrote: »

I have a friend who I've known for around 8 years but I've only really been close to him in the last 3/4 years.

Anyway, I went to Amsterdam with him in August and it was a lovely trip, but I ended up buying him things if they were perhaps easier to pay for on card, and when offering me the money I'd tell him not to worry about it, I wasn't bothered.

However, for a few years he's been working through an agency for a job, I recently got a Christmas temp job there and they gave him the same shifts as me, five days a week for four weeks. He asked me if I'd pick him up and take him home and he'd pay me, I told him sure. One week before he started working all week, he worked just one day of the week, I parked outside his house once taking him home and he got his wallet out, I told him to put it away and to sort something out after the next four weeks.

He was asking me how much I wanted, so I suggested maybe £10 per week but he thought it was a little much and within a few weeks, he said he'd give me no less than £25. As a friend I was fine with that. But then he argued and tried to get it down to £20. I wanted at least £30 but I could go to £25. We argued and he agreed but claimed I was ripping him off.

Once we finished, he did give me £25 but was arguing that I'm hardly going out of my way and it isn't costing me too much to pick him up and take him home, and that a real friend wouldn't have charged him. I reminded him for a one off trip it doesn't matter, but five days for four weeks does build up.

I live just short of 9 miles away from where I've been working, he lives just under 4 miles away. I can just go straight down the motorway, turn off and I'm there, but to pick him up I have to drive quite off route, stopping and starting at traffic lights but he doesn't drive so he doesn't really understand that. His friends who drive claim he is also right and I am wrong.

It's making me wonder, was I wrong to charge a friend? (apologies if this is in the wrong place, I thought friendships might class as relationships)

If your petrol costs you £20 a week to go to work, I would ask him for £10 and no more.
That's half the cost of the petrol, which is more than generous as he doesn't live as far away as you.

Going off the motorway to pick him up...that's the bit you do because he's a friend.

£25 a week? Yes, youre ripping him off.

reeree

Pop_Up_Pirate wrote: »

If your petrol costs you £20 a week to go to work, I would ask him for £10 and no more.
That's half the cost of the petrol, which is more than generous as he doesn't live as far away as you.

Going off the motorway to pick him up...that's the bit you do because he's a friend.

£25 a week? Yes, youre ripping him off.

But he's not asking him for £25 a week, that's what the friend offered to pay him for the whole month then tried to get it down to £20 a month, the op asked for £10 a week

Lily-Rose_3

Pop_Up_Pirate wrote: »

If your petrol costs you £20 a week to go to work, I would ask him for £10 and no more.
That's half the cost of the petrol, which is more than generous as he doesn't live as far away as you.

Going off the motorway to pick him up...that's the bit you do because he's a friend.

£25 a week? Yes, youre ripping him off.

Reading between the lines, I think the OP meant £25 for the four weeks he was taking him.

Upshot is, it's subjective whether or not wanting to come off the motorway/go out of your way makes you a 'bad friend' or not. It can put unnecessary stress on people, on top of their already busy and stressful day. So nobody is a bad friend just because they choose to not be used as a free taxi!

Some may say you're a rubbish friend if you take advantage of people and expect free lifts from them, and expect them to go out of their way to pick you up. Why don't you learn to drive and get your own car and the expense and stress that goes with having one, and make your OWN way to work? As some have said, thinking someone can give you a lift for free because they are going that way anyway is a cheek!

dktreesea

cjdavies wrote: »

A bloke wanted lifts off me for overtime, I agreed even though out of my way for a detour, as I only live 2 mins from motorway and had to join 2 junctions after if i picked him up.

Petrol was agreed, then made some excuse couldn't pay after taking home said pay Monday, ok, didn't pay, following week another lift , I said double as didn't pay week before, ok he said, another lame excuse and didn't pay.

Week after asked for lift, I said no, he tried to give me 2 weeks worth of petrol from before, I declined and said in a nutshell it should have been straight away and didn't give anymore lifts.

Good on you! That other bloke is a greedy s*d.

dktreesea

One of my work colleagues was giving another guy a lift, who agreed to pay him then didn't pony up with the money. Needless to say the guy giving the lifts felt aggrieved but couldn't see a way out. I told him he needs to toughen up. Just don't turn up tomorrow. He thought this was a bit radical, another week went by and lo and behold, with still no money passing over, he followed my advice.


He just ignored this guy's calls - the guy ended up having to take a taxi into work and got in late. Boy, was he mad.


It changed the dynamics at work for sure, of course because we all took the part of the guy who was giving the lifts.


Then this same guy's car broke down and he asked another colleague for a lift and was told it's going to be £4 a day, paid in advance, and if he wasn't standing on the corner of his street at the agreed pick up time, the guy wasn't waiting.

unholyangel

FBaby wrote: »

Really? So if it isn't beneficial for you, you don't help a friend? If they ask you for help with packing to move somewhere, unless they pay you in one way or the other, you say no?


Well a bit over the top, but what you've missed is that OP is not asking for additional expenses, but to be paid for the non costly inconvenience and that is the part that his friend is challenging.

Indeed, I think friendship is indeed exactly that, someone you are prepared to be inconvenienced for because you care for them and you know that they will also be prepared to be inconvenienced for you in return.

There's a number of people here I don't think I would want as friends if every time they are asked for a favour from someone closed (ie. a friend of many years), they only agree if they have something to gain from it.

I disagree. At present we know OP lives 9 miles from work and his "friend" lives 4 miles from work. What we don't know is how much additional mileage picking up the friend adds on - never mind effects on MPG either. Theres a very real possibility the £25 (or £6.25 per week/£1.25 per day) doesn't cover the additional fuel costs - let alone wear & tear (so its definitely not compensating OP for additional time/inconvenience it causes). Nor do we know OP's financial circumstances - but it seems that he at least has to cover the additional expenses involved with running a car while the "friend" does not which means OP is likely at least £20-30 a week worse off just by owning a car, never mind the fuel.

What you're essentially saying is that you think it perfectly acceptable to expect a friend to not only inconvenience themselves but also pay out of their own pocket all so the asker can have things more convenient for them - to me that is selfish and not the mark of a good friend because they either haven't considered how it would impact their supposed friend or they simply don't care.

Its not about not doing anything unless you're getting something - as I said, I wouldn't ask that of a friend without insisting they were paid for it because my friends aren't there just to make things more cushy for me, much less at cost to themselves. We're friends because we like each other, not because we like what we can do for each other.

FBaby

What we don't know is how much additional mileage picking up the friend adds on

Indeed, we don't know, but making assumption because if indeed it was costing him more than £20 in petrol, then it seems obvious that OP would be right to ask for this extra.

doesn't cover the additional fuel costs - let alone wear & tear

Wear and Tear doesn't add up because of one more passenger, not for 4 weeks only in any rate.

ut it seems that he at least has to cover the additional expenses involved with running a car while the "friend" does not which means OP is likely at least £20-30 a week worse off just by owning a car, never mind the fuel.

I think it's you coming up with a random cost now!

What you're essentially saying is that you think it perfectly acceptable to expect a friend to not only inconvenience themselves but also pay out of their own pocket all so the asker can have things more convenient for them

It's not what I'm saying at all. The way the OP was written hinted that his friend lived on the way to work, but that he couldn't take the motorway to get him, so instead had to use smaller roads. If that is the case, it would indicate that there isn't much additional fuel costs beyond what OP's friend has offered.

Ironically, I think we are all agreeing on the issue, ie. that OP's friend should be paying for the additional cost incurred by OP. What we don't seem to agree on is what that cost is likely to be, ie. is OP only asking for the actual costs, or for more on the basis that he should be financially compensated for the inconvenience.

unholyangel

FBaby wrote: »

Indeed, we don't know, but making assumption because if indeed it was costing him more than £20 in petrol, then it seems obvious that OP would be right to ask for this extra.

Wear and Tear doesn't add up because of one more passenger, not for 4 weeks only in any rate.


I think it's you coming up with a random cost now!


It's not what I'm saying at all. The way the OP was written hinted that his friend lived on the way to work, but that he couldn't take the motorway to get him, so instead had to use smaller roads. If that is the case, it would indicate that there isn't much additional fuel costs beyond what OP's friend has offered.

Ironically, I think we are all agreeing on the issue, ie. that OP's friend should be paying for the additional cost incurred by OP. What we don't seem to agree on is what that cost is likely to be, ie. is OP only asking for the actual costs, or for more on the basis that he should be financially compensated for the inconvenience.

Having additional weight in the car does affect wear & tear (and also fuel consumption as others pointed out).

As for random cost no. It was actually a quite conservative total of how much you're likely to pay out with the average car on MOT, insurance (with years NCB), road tax & annual repairs/maintenance of a minor nature and doesn't even fully take into account cost to buy the vehicle over the lifespan you'll have it (or "optional extras" such as servicing or breakdown cover).


Also how would OP taking smaller roads mean there is no additional cost beyond whats been offered? OP said he can go straight motorway journey to get to work but to pick up the friend, he has to drive quite off route. As I said, we don't know how many miles this adds on never mind difference to MPG.

More to the point:
1) friend asks OP for regular lift with the promise of payment
2) OP asks friend for £10 a week
3) few weeks later (knowing OP was aiming at a figure close to £10 a week) friend offers £25 which OP accepts despite it being below what he wanted because he is a friend
4) friend then tries to go back on his offer again by now offering £20 which op does not accept.
5) friend gets huffy because OP wants to hold him to his original offer and then says OP should have done it for free.

I really don't see anything there indicating that OP is anything but a good friend or that his supposed friend is ripping the proverbial and is less interested in the friendship than he is saving himself a fiver.

springdreams

FBaby wrote: »

Where did you get this. That's not what OP said, the disagreement relates to the amount, not that his friend think he should pay nothing.

The OP said:

Once we finished, he did give me £25 but was arguing that I'm hardly going out of my way and it isn't costing me too much to pick him up and take him home, and that a real friend wouldn't have charged him. I reminded him for a one off trip it doesn't matter, but five days for four weeks does build up.