I think we've reached the end of the road. What now?

ska_lover

SuzieSue wrote: »

The OP has already said that they don't talk about things like this so trying to discuss what is wrong is probably going to end in another argument. True, but taking themselves out of the usual environment is going to ease the stress - and hopefully lead to more of an honest emotional conversation. The only possible way out of any argument is communication really, nothing is going to change if they don't talk and try. It is going to take effort on both sides, to try and see insight into how the other is feeling and break through any initial accusatory and blame feelings to get to the core of the matter. Getting away from things takes you away from possible interruptions, kids calling etc

He has already told her what the main problem is which is her "nagging". That is a mans 'go to' answer when he doesn't like what is being said, it doesn't actually mean anything. Anyone with insight will see that any nagging is a symptom of the problem SHE is facing, not the problem itself. Women verbalize problems, men do not tend to be so good at that. Men rationalize this as nagging. I dislike this term. It is s*xist as you never hear a man be accused of nagging.

The OP needs to decide if she can do anything about this in order to save her marriage. She needs to do something like get a cleaner, do less ironing, do only essential housework etc, so that she does not feel resentful when he is sitting around doing nothing.The issue is not just the housework, there is the fact that they are both burnt out. The husband appears to be on the brink of a breakdown, and the wife not altogether too far behind - they are both suffering, but they have lost each other (emotionally speaking), whilst struggling with life in general, work kids etc

Of course, the ideal would be that he changes and decides that he likes helping around the house instead of watching rugby, but I can't see that happening.
Maybe when they both discuss their issues, and they both realize how stressed each other is, maybe they can BOTH support each other in the areas that each is struggling with.


Everyone is allowed some down time, it is not selfish to want to watch a rugby game, if you work all week, to have two hours to yourself, and equally if the lady of the house wanted the same for herself after working and looking after kids and housework all week, it would be advisable to do so, as it is healthy to want to have some time for yourself, not selfish at all

The way things are at the minute, no one is getting any fulfillment, no one is getting what they want.


Ideally something like, the wife does the main chores during the week, however If it were me I would expect my hubby to help with bedtime or clearing up after the evening meal so we could be both 'done' at the same time. I would not expect him to be sitting watching tele whilst I was doing kids bedtime and clearing up the kitchen - not a chance

However weekends do need to be more balanced for everyones sanity, Saturday it is her lie in, Sunday it is his. Simlilar for down time but equal for both

hazyjo

A tip I once read... your entire house doesn't have to be perfect, just the rooms visitors are likely to see if they turn up


As for the 1930s comment, well, I'm a she and he's a he so we do it in reverse! If we had kids, I would probably pull my weight more at home as well as working, but it is just us.


I work from 9-6 with an hour's commute each way. I get lunch off and quiet periods. tbh, it's the commuting that's far harder than being at work - and I'm about to extend mine! Arghhh! My 10 hours do mean that he does the lot. If that makes me a 1930s bloke (haha) so be it. It's not about sharing, it's about equalling. The weird thing is we're naturally defensive about doing it as it's classed as 'women's work' which is probably partly what niggles us about doing it. My OH doesn't really have that niggle though so doesn't mind doing it.


The answer is definitely to have allocated jobs. As suggested above, work out what hours you do each then split the rest. My ex used to do the hovering, I cleaned. I usually did clothes/washing/bathroom, he did dishwasher and cooking. It sort of levelled itself out really - he worked far shorter hours than me (teacher) and had the school hols.


Maybe get him to change/make the beds (I think that's just about all my dad used to do) and give him a shopping list to go shopping with, or you can find something that suits you both.


Agree with the ironing comment above - not everything needs ironing.


Often the problem is that people don't start as they mean to go on. It reaches a point where they're fed up of doing something and tend to moan or nag - whereas the oblivious other half was unaware anything was wrong! Not a dig - and not necessarily your situation - but it happens a lot. Men do often need things spelling out that need doing!


Can't remember if you've replied as to whether you could pay someone to do the ironing or cleaning.


If all else fails, do a 'Shirley Valentine' and leave him a list of jobs that need doing, kids' stuff that needs sorting, and appointments that need keeping - and jet off somewhere alone for a week.


Jx

Happier_Me

Hi OP

I suggest you give it a couple of days and then calmly inform your husband you need to talk about your relationship so you can both decide whether you have a future or not as a couple. If he is open to the idea set a day and time to do this (when there will be minimal interruptions). If he isn't I suggest you tell him he has until XX/XX/XX date to agree to talk and if he hasn't agreed by this point you will be consulting a solicitor regarding a divorce. But also tell him how you feel...that you still love him, that you want to make this work but he needs to meet you half way (assuing you genuinely feel this way)

The one other thing I would say is: don't turn this into a competition! It's not about how much he does and how much you do at this point! Many of us parents have been there, got that T-Shirt and it gets ugly. Given the state of things at the moment you may as well skip straight to a divorce if this is going to be your approach.

When you meet...listen!

Focus on him...try to get to the bottom of why he is acting the way he is and what he feels needs to change! You may not like what you hear but spend some time (days!) mulling over what he has had to say before you respond.

This isn't about ignoring your needs but understanding his.

pushing40

Thank you to the last few posters. You've made lots of sense, given great advice and given me a lot of food for thought. Thanks to everyone.

piglet74

Have you thought how you might find out if he is cheating or not, will you look for evidence, ask him etc?

If you do, just be prepared for what you might find.

I sometimes feel like I am the only person who doesn't have an ironing basket, or an ironing day.

I fold towels, sheets, etc as they come in off the line, or out of the dryer,
I hang up jeans or trousers, etc right away
And good clothes, and shirts, clothes for wearing out etc, I dry on the hangers,then hang up, and iron as and when required,

Jamiesmum

Buy a dishwasher.
Skip the hoovering/mopping over the weekend.
How much washing do you accumulate? Can you just dedicate one day a week too it? No harm in kids wearing pyjamas a few nights in a row, if the uniform is clean leave it etc.
Get the kids to tidy their own rooms, do chores earn treats. 6 yr old could probably load the dishwasher, 4 year old will be fine with polish and a rag.

Enjoy the weekends with your kids, go out for the day - if he doesn't want to come then leave him at home. I often find my days out with my lad are less stressful and more enjoyable than when we are at home. Less tidying up to do too!

You must get down time in the evenings? You don't need to be all go until late at night.

Leave the housework on a weekend and spend time together as a family.

hazyjo

piglet74 wrote: »

I fold towels, sheets, etc as they come in off the line, or out of the dryer,
I hang up jeans or trousers, etc right away
And good clothes, and shirts, clothes for wearing out etc, I dry on the hangers,then hang up, and iron as and when required,

I used to do exactly that. Everything was hung straight away. It was far quicker to just iron something as I needed it. It did mean the ironing board stayed up most of the time, but it was down when I didn't want anyone else seeing it. Maybe just iron the kids' school stuff and hang the rest. If you can't afford or don't want an ironing lady and if your OH wears shirts daily, maybe consider using the local dry cleaners - 5 shirts washed and ironed for a fiver or whatever they offer.


My OH tends to save it all up and has a day of ironing in front of the telly with a couple of films. I think he quite enjoys 'ironing day'!


Jx

Doozergirl

pushing40 wrote: »

I suggested counselling - he said it was pointless as nobody else in his life makes him feel like I do (apparently I nag too much). In my defence, with three children, a part-time job to hold down, and all the housekeeping I have to do, it's not surprising I nag when I get little help and he gets to lie in bed every weekend while I run around like a headless chicken. He has a very volatile temper and has isolated lots of people in his life (he no longer speaks to either of his parents or brothers, has fallen out with various friends over the years and moans constantly about colleagues at work).

Goodness, I was going to bang a drum for relationship counselling but he sounds really unhappy. If you look for the lowest common denominator, then it's himself he's unhappy with and he's looking to control outside, which you never can when the answer is inside. Comparing to others is also a route straight to self-hatred as well.

You can go to relationship counselling yourself and I really recommend it, regardless of the end result of your relationship. My husband would resist coming with me so I went alone and it did help.

We expect ourselves to have the answers to everything, including a happy marriage, but if anything else needed fixing we'd find a professional. Please go. We all owe it to ourselves and our children to make a proper attempt and your story isn't much different from all the other marriages that end in divorce, or the ones that end up seeking a better kind of help and fixing it.

(Not to talk about myself but if you want an ending, he went on a self-development week long course alone after I read him the riot act and realised that he should come along. We're stronger than we've ever been. )

Primrose

I think Doozergirl has some words of wisdom. It sounds as if your husband, despite being stressed and unhappy , has a number of unfortunate personality problems which seem to have dogged him most of his life in terms of building good relationships with the people around him, including his family. Such people often sadly tend to blame everybody else as the cause of their unhappiness , rather than realising that working on their own personal awareness and self development would reduce a lot of their problems.

hHe may not be prepared to accept this but this should not prevent you asking for some counselling support if you think it would help you cope with whatever path lies ahead of you. Frankly it sounds as if your husband's future happiness is probably doomed to faiilure whatever path he takes because of his anger and negativity. If this sadly proves to be the case, don't let him pull you down with him. You may have to recognise that he just doesn't have what it takes to be a good long term mature grown up husband and father.

FBaby

I'm wondering if the issue is resentment with the Wednesday. You sty you work hard that day but also that you only have the youngest one. The big difference is that you have more control and flexibility over your day. If you have a bad night sleep you can decide that that day you won't do the big chores and rest. It means you can catch up when little one nap.

I went from working FT to hedging Wednesdays off for a year when my youngest was 18 months old and took him out of nursery on that day. The difference was huge. I could just or on a pair of jeans and sweatshirt to drop eldest to school and it meant not rushing as much as could leave 1 hour later. It meant I could then either be very efficient with time or not. It meant quality time with my boy and sometimes meeting up with friends and chatting whilst kids play and then having an hour or so for myself when he napped. That day was so much more rewarding than the others at work.

I think the issue is that yoy are both knackered and desperate for new time. He takes it and probably feels guilty but feel he has no choice for his sanity then builds anger when your nagging means he can't ignore the guilt. You build a list in your mind off all the times he has for himself and act like a police officer giving out a penalty notice each time he breaks a rule.

Your mutual resentment is such that you can't accept there is no miracle outcome but small compromises reached through communication. Such like you do less housework on Wednesday and try to make the best of the day to enjoy yourself and he gets a whole morning or afternoon over the weekend but he gets up with the kids one morning Saturday or Sunday.

What is sad is that things will get easier and if you could manage to go through it you might come or of it with an even stronger marriage.