I think we've reached the end of the road. What now?

LannieDuck

FBaby wrote: »

I'm wondering if the issue is resentment with the Wednesday. You sty you work hard that day but also that you only have the youngest one. The big difference is that you have more control and flexibility over your day. If you have a bad night sleep you can decide that that day you won't do the big chores and rest. It means you can catch up when little one nap.

I went from working FT to hedging Wednesdays off for a year when my youngest was 18 months old and took him out of nursery on that day. The difference was huge. I could just or on a pair of jeans and sweatshirt to drop eldest to school and it meant not rushing as much as could leave 1 hour later. It meant I could then either be very efficient with time or not. It meant quality time with my boy and sometimes meeting up with friends and chatting whilst kids play and then having an hour or so for myself when he napped. That day was so much more rewarding than the others at work.

I think the issue is that yoy are both knackered and desperate for new time. He takes it and probably feels guilty but feel he has no choice for his sanity then builds anger when your nagging means he can't ignore the guilt. You build a list in your mind off all the times he has for himself and act like a police officer giving out a penalty notice each time he breaks a rule.

Your mutual resentment is such that you can't accept there is no miracle outcome but small compromises reached through communication. Such like you do less housework on Wednesday and try to make the best of the day to enjoy yourself and he gets a whole morning or afternoon over the weekend but he gets up with the kids one morning Saturday or Sunday.

What is sad is that things will get easier and if you could manage to go through it you might come or of it with an even stronger marriage.

I have Weds off currently with my 2 yo and have completely the opposite experience. It's far more stressful than being at work.

There's no way I can get any proper jobs done because the 2 yo wants attention and to be played with all the time. She wants to 'help' me do jobs (which is very cute, but not very effective!), or she wants to press the keys on the keyboard, or shuffle through whatever papers I'm reading.

I do get an hour or so when she naps - i guess that's equivalent to a lunch break at work, but it's unpredictable. And she's just started dropping her nap. I spent my 'lunch break' today negotiating with her to stay in her room and try to sleep, then changing a dirty nappy, then taking up an iPad for her to watch TV on so I at least had time to finish my food.

And re: 'if you have a bad night's sleep'... I can't remember the last time I had an uninterrupted night. One or other of the children always wakes me up at least once. Last week there was a memorable night when I was woken up 4 times

This may be something that's very child-dependent. At this age my eldest was happy to play by herself, and could sit and colour for hours quite happily. But my youngest is very clingy. Lovely and adorable... but clingy :rotfl:

FBaby

I suppose it depends on the job then because looking after my boy, despite him being very demanding for attention, was so much easier than dealing with my job and the demands of my boss and colleagues!

For one I could tell him off if he really annoyed me which couldn't do at work!

Ultimately, with a child, you can choose to stay at home in your PJs, or go and meet with friends with your child, which even if he needs attention is still nice to do. At work, you are stuck with your duties and responsibilities no matter how you feel that day.7

But yes, everyone experience will be different depending on the job and child.

enthusiasticsaver

I worked part time when my two daughters were small and apart from when they were at university have always worked part time although my OH does work erratic hours and is at home sometimes anyway. He never offered to help out at home with the kids when they were younger at the weekend (until I got a Saturday job and he had to) but I would say "Can you do tea while I bath the kids?" or "Can you run the hoover round while I nip up the shops?". That sounds more like a partnership. If your OH insists on sitting around watching TV then I would ask outright if he can do something to help afterwards. It does not have to be done in a nagging way, just asking him to help out.

It does sound as if work may be part of the issue so having a chat one evening after the kids have gone to bed and asking him what he wants to happen - either separation or maybe adjusting his work/life balance. I personally would be concerned about him being depressed and it does sound as if he has some sort of personality disorder if he finds it difficult to get on with other people. I think you need to also recognise that maybe being passive aggressive with him and shouting at the kids is stressful for them, for you and him. I would take a deep breath and tell him you are going for 5 minutes on your own. Go out into the garden, have a bath or something when things get too much for you. Maybe some counselling to help you deal with the stress of having children and no downtime. Go on a Wednesday when your other kids are at school and maybe ask your parents to have your toddler? I look after my 1 year old granddaughter one day a week and looking after kids is hard. Three young ones are a lot so you work just as hard as him even though your part time hours are shorter. I also do think you need to recognise though that a 40 hour job with probably a lot of stress is a lot for your OH to cope with too so don't make it a competition as to who has it harder as that way no one wins, least of all the kids.

Re money, does he keep you short of money? You say you have savings, are they joint? Can you ask him if you could perhaps budget for a small holiday for all of you. You are a long time dead and even though saving for retirement is admirable you do need to live a little along the way too.

If, in spite of your efforts he is not interested and thinks separation is the only way then I would see a solicitor. Make a note of assets and talk to him about how he sees you all going forward. Will you stay in the house or will you sell up? Can he move into a rented flat until the children are older and then you sell? Whatever you decide I hope you come out happier in the end as you all sound miserable. I feel for you.

LannieDuck

FBaby wrote: »

I suppose it depends on the job then because looking after my boy, despite him being very demanding for attention, was so much easier than dealing with my job and the demands of my boss and colleagues!

For one I could tell him off if he really annoyed me which couldn't do at work!

Ultimately, with a child, you can choose to stay at home in your PJs, or go and meet with friends with your child, which even if he needs attention is still nice to do. At work, you are stuck with your duties and responsibilities no matter how you feel that day.7

But yes, everyone experience will be different depending on the job and child.

No meeting up with friends during the day for me - they're all at work!

I think I find work easier than childcare because I can concentrate on a task and make real progress. I can work at my own pace and take tea-breaks as and when I need to. Whereas with a child, the work is unending, boring, repetitive and thankless. I can easily cycle the dishwasher twice in a day, tidy up three times, clean the carpet and mop up wee (we're potty training) and still have toys strewn all over the floor when my OH gets home.

That's not to say I don't enjoy interacting with my LO. The actual playing parts of the day are rewarding and fun. But there's a lot of unseen work that goes along with it.

barbiedoll

All these posts about his work, his possible depression, his stress etc etc, are missing the point for me. He isn't on here asking about divorce but OP is.

OP...does the thought of him coming home from work fill you with dread?

He has friends at the pub, do you have any friends (not at work) who you see during the week or at weekends? Do you have any friends as a couple?

He's saving for "retirement"...are you short of cash for everyday stuff?

Are his mood swings a regular thing? Has he made you scared before during an argument?

He wanted the kids, and you say that he would fight for custody...What makes you say that, does he use the kids as a weapon?

Do you ever have family days out to the park or to visit friends/relatives? Does he make a fuss if you visit your parents?

While everyone is concerned about his "stressful" job (what does he do, run a multi-national conglomerate? Everyone gets stressed at work) what about your stress levels? You say that you shout at the kids...you realise that this is wrong but what is making you so stressed? Is it just too much housework or is it him?

His behaviour is not acceptable, nor is his attitude towards you and your role within the family. And telling you that you're responsible for his unhappiness, is shifting the blame, if he's unhappy at work, then it's up to him to do something about it. By caring for his children and by working and contributing to the family finances, you are supporting him so that he has the freedom to enjoy his weekends. To not do the same for you is disrespectful to say the least.

I don't know if you have any way back from this, but for me...hearing my husband tell me that he doesn't love me and that I'm responsible for his problems, would be a deal-breaker for me. You don't need to listen to that, nor do your children.

And it's interesting that he doesn't have any contact with his family. My husband had a very dysfunctional childhood and he doesn't really see his family now. But I have met them and so has our son. It's strange that you have never met any of his family, so you only have his word for it about how awful they are. Maybe they're the ones that are keeping away from him?

Loz01

Sounds as tho you're taking care of 3 young kids and one very big kid!! Surely having to battle with him to get out of bed or do anything helpful is just causing you unhappiness isn't it? You'd probably feel less stressed on your own.

FBaby

I think I find work easier than childcare

Then if that is also the case for OP, maybe her husband might have a point about her considering working FT. It could be double benefit, her happier that she gets her break from the kids, her OH having no choice but to help more, and more money to spend on comfort.

LannieDuck

FBaby wrote: »

Then if that is also the case for OP, maybe her husband might have a point about her considering working FT. It could be double benefit, her happier that she gets her break from the kids, her OH having no choice but to help more, and more money to spend on comfort.

I agree. If she can increase her hours and her OH can decrease his, both parties might be happier.

enthusiasticsaver

LannieDuck wrote: »

I agree. If she can increase her hours and her OH can decrease his, both parties might be happier.

Would the children be happier though? Presumably 20 hours which is what the OP does and what in fact I did too when my kids were small allowed me to take them and pick them up from school which the OP does at the moment. Having to organise wrap around childcare and deal with rushing kids out in the morning and have them in childcare until 5 or 6pm sounds even more stressful for the OP simply so that her DH is happier?

I would not buy into that at all as I do not think it would address the point that her DH does not help and she would be working longer hours and dealing with kids in full time child care plus they would hardly see either of their parents during the working week unless they go to bed later.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

pushing40 wrote: »

When OH pushed me, I was most definitely NOT in his face or goading him. On the contrary, I was begging him to calm down - he could see that I was physically trembling and that I was scared. He even made the comment that if I had been a man he would have "knocked me out many times".


The argument came from literary nowhere, though I had sensed a bad mood brewing for a few days. I wasn't being unsupportive, I wasn't not communicating. I tried. I tried a few days earlier to talk to him about work but he cut me off and walked out of the door, and there had been an atmosphere between us since, culminating in the big argument that led to me posting on here.


What I mean is, yes, he has a stressful job. Yes, he wants to spend every moment he's not at work relaxing and trying to forget that stress. But his anger boiled up from nowhere over breakfast over nothing. Before I knew what was happening, he was launching a whole list of reasons as to why he didn't like me or want to be with me. His anger didn't seem a justifiable response to the discussion that had taken place moments before. In fact, I wouldn't expect him to be any angrier had he just been told I was having an affair! It was THAT unjustifiable.


As for not speaking to his family - he has been estranged from them most of his adult life. Our children don't even see their paternal grandparents/uncles/cousins because they don't even know they exist. Now, admittedly, from what I have heard of them (I've never met any of them), I can't entirely blame him for not wanting to be associated with them (you can't pick your family, right?!) HOWEVER, to use another cliche, blood is thicker than water and I'd like to think that I could forgive my family of almost anything. However, OH is very much of the opinion that he wants nothing to do with them and I have to respect that. His family history is dysfunctional and I would love nothing more than for that not be the case - you have no idea how envious I am of people who have a "normal" bunch of in-laws. But the fact of the matter is they're not talked about, they're not liked by him, and they're not in his (or our) lives. Not even a little bit. And to answer another point, no I don't make him spend every Christmas with my family. In fact, he rarely sees them either. We spend Christmas at home, just us.


Someone asked if he never lifted a finger after the first child, why did we go on to have another two children. I don't think I ever said he doesn't lift a finger. (In my original post I said that "I do everything" - what I meant by this, and I'm sorry I didn't make this clearer in my OP, was that I am the main care-provider so where does that leave me in terms of where we'd live, would he have to move out, would the children and I have to move out, would he have to continue to pay for us to stay there, or would we have to sell up and split the equity, and how would that be split, etc. I really am clueless to my rights, hence posting on here.)


So, whilst I'm the main caregiver and do the bulk of the chores, he does do the odd thing. He might play in the garden with them, he runs the occasional bath, he clears the odd table and washes up occasionally - but the bulk is done by me. But this wasn't really a complaint. I am happy to do most of that as he works full time. HOWEVER, during his "time off" he really thinks it is ok to sit watching sport for a few hours, or to sit browsing his mobile phone, but it's not ok for me to be resentful when I'm still running around while he does nothing. I'm resentful because I don't get the luxury of sitting down reading a magazine while he does the weekly shop, or gets lunch ready. That just doesn't happen. Almost every day, he will ask "what's for dinner?". He would never say "I'm going to make xyz for dinner for us all tonight" - it just wouldn't enter his radar.


So, to summarise, he's resentful of my "nagging" and I'm resentful of being taken for granted. (And, I'd just like to add that my "nagging" usually takes the form of a tongue-in-cheek "can I get a bit of help here with this while you're watching the rugby?")


But I hardly thought it justifiable to blow up like a bottle of pop, shout, push me, tell me he doesn't love me and tell me he doesn't want custody of the children either (though I knew this last point to be a lie - he'd fight me all the way for custody) - but he said all of this in front of our children (oh, and to answer someone else earlier, the children are aged 6yrs, 4yrs and 18mths) . Our middle daughter ran off and hid under her bed when he was shouting. I NEVER want my children to hear or see us argue, and he knew this as we'd had a conversation about it a while ago. When he started to shout and it was clear that he wasn't going to calm down, I BEGGED him not to do it in front of the children, but he still carried on - getting louder and angrier.


Regardless of what an awful wife I might be, or how much I nag, regardless of how much stress he is under at work, I don't think it's ever acceptable to get so angry that it makes your child cower under a bed.


For all his bad points, there are many more good points. For all my bad points, I also have many good points. I want our marriage to work because I DO love him and I want my children to be raised by both of us living under one roof. However, for this to happen, I think we both have to change.

pushing40 wrote: »

I don't know if he would ever hit me or not. He definitely thought about it, I could just tell and he said if I was a man he'd have knocked me out.

No, I have never (nor would ever) put pressure on him to see his family. His family, his choice. I was more making the point for readers of this thread that, whilst it may be an unusual situation, it is what it is. I was merely addressing some of the previous speculation over it.

I see now that what I thought were subtle tongue in cheek requests were anything but subtle. However, my point all along is that surely while we're both in the house, we both have a responsibility to raise the kids and muck in. I work AND do chores and raise the kids. He works longer hours but some of you are implying that working full-time means he gets to do nothing when not at work?! Really? Are we in the 1930s?

I tried to walk away when he started to shout. He walked after me and backed me into a corner, pushing me double handed on the shoulders. Sorry, totally disproportionate to what had gone on. Like I said, it's not like he'd just caught me in bed with someone else.

Why are so many people so concerned about him being stressed and making it the OP's fault he's assaulted her, scared her, made threats of violence and terrified a child?