I think we've reached the end of the road. What now?

Jamiesmum

Guest101 wrote: »

I just found it shocking the OP said she could see he was stressed and it was building up, but did nothing.


That speaks volumes to me

This is a very true reply. This is all coming from the OPs point of view, his could be totally different and it would be very interesting to read his side aswell.

LilElvis wrote: »

Why shocking? So she didn't ask him if everything was OK and he didn't say anything until it came out as an explosion. Communication works two ways.

What seems more telling to me is the fact that he has cut off contact with his parents, siblings and friends. Someone who has a history of walking away from relationships, especially close family ones, is unlikely to have any qualms about doing the same again with his wife, and possibly even his children.

This is my issue with the situation though. Why have children with someone like this?


OP..My opinion and advice..

If you feel your OH is lazy / unhelpful / not doing his part etc after the first child, then why go on to have more children with the same lazy unhelpful partner who makes you do it all? I know this doesn't help you now, it's already done. But to anyone else who feels they are in a similar situation who may be reading - if your energy is low, pushing boundaries and having more children won't make it easier or him any more helpful.

I think divorce is way to easy and common these days. You need to try and work it through at least for the sake of the kids. It won't get any easier when you're struggling on a part time wage and still juggling the housework, children, commitments and work.

I would start off by discussing joining finances or freeing up some of your wages so you can actually go out and enjoy it. I would then start ordering the odd take away once a week so you don't have to cook/wash up. I'd stick a meal in the slow cooker in the mornings so you don't have to cook in the evenings.
Invite a friend round for wine and pizza and ask him to get them to bed. Go out to the shops and be gone for an hour or so, see how he copes.

Do you ask him for help? Do you say 'can you bath the kids whilst I cook dinner?'

Me and my partner both work full time, both do shift work, so both understand how tiring it can be - but I still do more than he does (think it's just a typical mum thing). I do the cooking, 80% of the cleaning, but he does the DIY, school runs when he can (I have to use my lunch break to do the pick up and take to childminder). He does 80% of bath times, hangs out the washing, gardening etc.

After a while they just become 'his and her' jobs. In fact we once split up for 9 months thinking life would be easier on our own, but it really wasn't. Life got harder for both of us, and now we take each other for granted much less.

You both need to find what works for you. If he works full time he probably is very tired. I know when I've finished my shift my OH wouldn't expect me to do anything bar give some love to our 5 yr old. Same goes for him, if I'm home all day and he's been working I just get on with it.

I'm not even going to comment on the quote about shouting at the kids, except to say none of this is their fault.

Happier_Me

Hi Pushing40

I am a mum of two children now 8 and 11 and I think I have experienced to some degree your lifestyle (two toddlers only but working in a very stressful 'part time' job and managing all the childcare and household chores) and your husband's lifestyle (working full time in a stressful job I hated but throw in all the childcare and shared chores).

Both environments are tiring and stressful. But I have to ask? Do you get any pleasure from being with your children at all? Because even though it was exhausting and thankless and repetitive and neverending and frustrating I still enjoyed being with my children. It was worth it! And it isn't forever, before you know it they are at school and you can actually reason with them!

I have also worked a job full time job that I despised and hated with a passion. I found no enjoyment from my life outside of work, I went through the motions because I had no choice but I struggled to engage with my husband and kids at its worst. If I could I would have spent the weekends under a quilt not intertacting with anyone. Genuine work related stress where you are heading to burn out is soul destroying. Add to the fact that your husband is the main earner he probably feels very trapped. I know I did.

From my experience of both lifestyles I would take yours over his 100 times over.

Now I could be barking up the wrong tree here. He could be a selfish !%@?& who just wants out? The relationship could be doomed for other reasons? But if your husband is heading towards burn out he needs help, not a divorce.

So the question is: Are you prepared to invest some time working out why he is behaving this way? And exploring ways to get him and your marriage back on track! Or do you want a divorce regardless of the reasons for his behaviour?

ska_lover

Guest101 wrote: »

I just found it shocking the OP said she could see he was stressed and it was building up, but did nothing.


That speaks volumes to me

Disagree with this, it is unfair to attempt to put this on the OP.

Knowing someone is stressed is not the same as understanding the signs of the onset of a mental health condition or nervous breakdown

surveyqueenuk

Guest101 wrote: »

I just found it shocking the OP said she could see he was stressed and it was building up, but did nothing.


That speaks volumes to me

The OP said she was shoved by her partner and that he had to use every bit of self control he had not to hit her but you are "shocked" about communication issues?

Guest101

surveyqueenuk wrote: »

The OP said she was shoved by her partner and that he had to use every bit of self control he had not to hit her but you are "shocked" about communication issues?

If you can see that the person you love is getting more and more stressed and you do nothing about it, that speaks volumes.


Don't agree with the shoving (we don't know for sure about anything else) - but all that could be pre-emted by simply paying attention to whats going on.


For goodness sake, for all you know she was stood in his face and he pushed her away to leave the situation. This is one side of the story and frankly they both sound as bad as each other. Since I cant speak to him directly, im addressing issues with her behaviour.

Guest101

ska_lover wrote: »

Disagree with this, it is unfair to attempt to put this on the OP.

Knowing someone is stressed is not the same as understanding the signs of the onset of a mental health condition or nervous breakdown

No ofcourse, but part of being married is the to and fro of support, on this occasion clearly he needed it, she didn't provide it and a row ensued.


I'm not saying it's solely the OPs fault, I'm just surprised that someone could watch the 'love of their life' suffering and do nothing.

Guest101

LilElvis wrote: »

Why shocking? So she didn't ask him if everything was OK and he didn't say anything until it came out as an explosion. Communication works two ways.

What seems more telling to me is the fact that he has cut off contact with his parents, siblings and friends. Someone who has a history of walking away from relationships, especially close family ones, is unlikely to have any qualms about doing the same again with his wife, and possibly even his children.

OR - since we are only getting one side of it - he has cut off those relationships for other reasons.


High pressured long hours, no time to socialise.


Perhaps the OP insists they spend Christmas with her family?


Perhaps she doesn't get on with the in laws?


Perhaps....


There could be a million and one reasons. Your speculating as much as I am on this one.

pushing40

Lots of replies, I'll try to address some of the points I've read.


When OH pushed me, I was most definitely NOT in his face or goading him. On the contrary, I was begging him to calm down - he could see that I was physically trembling and that I was scared. He even made the comment that if I had been a man he would have "knocked me out many times".


The argument came from literary nowhere, though I had sensed a bad mood brewing for a few days. I wasn't being unsupportive, I wasn't not communicating. I tried. I tried a few days earlier to talk to him about work but he cut me off and walked out of the door, and there had been an atmosphere between us since, culminating in the big argument that led to me posting on here.


What I mean is, yes, he has a stressful job. Yes, he wants to spend every moment he's not at work relaxing and trying to forget that stress. But his anger boiled up from nowhere over breakfast over nothing. Before I knew what was happening, he was launching a whole list of reasons as to why he didn't like me or want to be with me. His anger didn't seem a justifiable response to the discussion that had taken place moments before. In fact, I wouldn't expect him to be any angrier had he just been told I was having an affair! It was THAT unjustifiable.


As for not speaking to his family - he has been estranged from them most of his adult life. Our children don't even see their paternal grandparents/uncles/cousins because they don't even know they exist. Now, admittedly, from what I have heard of them (I've never met any of them), I can't entirely blame him for not wanting to be associated with them (you can't pick your family, right?!) HOWEVER, to use another cliche, blood is thicker than water and I'd like to think that I could forgive my family of almost anything. However, OH is very much of the opinion that he wants nothing to do with them and I have to respect that. His family history is dysfunctional and I would love nothing more than for that not be the case - you have no idea how envious I am of people who have a "normal" bunch of in-laws. But the fact of the matter is they're not talked about, they're not liked by him, and they're not in his (or our) lives. Not even a little bit. And to answer another point, no I don't make him spend every Christmas with my family. In fact, he rarely sees them either. We spend Christmas at home, just us.


Someone asked if he never lifted a finger after the first child, why did we go on to have another two children. I don't think I ever said he doesn't lift a finger. (In my original post I said that "I do everything" - what I meant by this, and I'm sorry I didn't make this clearer in my OP, was that I am the main care-provider so where does that leave me in terms of where we'd live, would he have to move out, would the children and I have to move out, would he have to continue to pay for us to stay there, or would we have to sell up and split the equity, and how would that be split, etc. I really am clueless to my rights, hence posting on here.)


So, whilst I'm the main caregiver and do the bulk of the chores, he does do the odd thing. He might play in the garden with them, he runs the occasional bath, he clears the odd table and washes up occasionally - but the bulk is done by me. But this wasn't really a complaint. I am happy to do most of that as he works full time. HOWEVER, during his "time off" he really thinks it is ok to sit watching sport for a few hours, or to sit browsing his mobile phone, but it's not ok for me to be resentful when I'm still running around while he does nothing. I'm resentful because I don't get the luxury of sitting down reading a magazine while he does the weekly shop, or gets lunch ready. That just doesn't happen. Almost every day, he will ask "what's for dinner?". He would never say "I'm going to make xyz for dinner for us all tonight" - it just wouldn't enter his radar.


So, to summarise, he's resentful of my "nagging" and I'm resentful of being taken for granted. (And, I'd just like to add that my "nagging" usually takes the form of a tongue-in-cheek "can I get a bit of help here with this while you're watching the rugby?")


But I hardly thought it justifiable to blow up like a bottle of pop, shout, push me, tell me he doesn't love me and tell me he doesn't want custody of the children either (though I knew this last point to be a lie - he'd fight me all the way for custody) - but he said all of this in front of our children (oh, and to answer someone else earlier, the children are aged 6yrs, 4yrs and 18mths) . Our middle daughter ran off and hid under her bed when he was shouting. I NEVER want my children to hear or see us argue, and he knew this as we'd had a conversation about it a while ago. When he started to shout and it was clear that he wasn't going to calm down, I BEGGED him not to do it in front of the children, but he still carried on - getting louder and angrier.


Regardless of what an awful wife I might be, or how much I nag, regardless of how much stress he is under at work, I don't think it's ever acceptable to get so angry that it makes your child cower under a bed.


For all his bad points, there are many more good points. For all my bad points, I also have many good points. I want our marriage to work because I DO love him and I want my children to be raised by both of us living under one roof. However, for this to happen, I think we both have to change.

Guest101

pushing40 wrote: »

Lots of replies, I'll try to address some of the points I've read.


When OH pushed me, I was most definitely NOT in his face or goading him. On the contrary, I was begging him to calm down - he could see that I was physically trembling and that I was scared. He even made the comment that if I had been a man he would have "knocked me out many times". - So he wasn't going to knock you out then. But shoving you was still very wrong, and he needs to understand that.


The argument came from literary nowhere, though I had sensed a bad mood brewing for a few days. - That's a bit contradictory to be honest. I wasn't being unsupportive, I wasn't not communicating. I tried. I tried a few days earlier to talk to him about work - Maybe he doesn't want to talk about work if that's stressing him out? What about a day out? What about him blowing off steam down the pub? (or wherever) but he cut me off and walked out of the door, and there had been an atmosphere between us since, culminating in the big argument that led to me posting on here.


What I mean is, yes, he has a stressful job. Yes, he wants to spend every moment he's not at work relaxing and trying to forget that stress. But his anger boiled up from nowhere over breakfast over nothing. Before I knew what was happening, he was launching a whole list of reasons as to why he didn't like me or want to be with me. His anger didn't seem a justifiable response to the discussion that had taken place moments before. In fact, I wouldn't expect him to be any angrier had he just been told I was having an affair! It was THAT unjustifiable. - It is justifiable to him though, presumably he's very unhappy. Whether it's your fault or not, or he's finding fault with you because he's unhappy. Dismissing his emotions, even anger, is just belittling him.


As for not speaking to his family - he has been estranged from them most of his adult life. Our children don't even see their paternal grandparents/uncles/cousins because they don't even know they exist. Now, admittedly, from what I have heard of them (I've never met any of them), I can't entirely blame him for not wanting to be associated with them (you can't pick your family, right?!) HOWEVER, to use another cliche, blood is thicker than water and I'd like to think that I could forgive my family of almost anything. - But he doesn't have to, hes not you and you aren't him. Have you been pressuring him to do so? However, OH is very much of the opinion that he wants nothing to do with them and I have to respect that. His family history is dysfunctional and I would love nothing more than for that not be the case - you have no idea how envious I am of people who have a "normal" bunch of in-laws. - It's overrated But the fact of the matter is they're not talked about, they're not liked by him, and they're not in his (or our) lives. Not even a little bit. And to answer another point, no I don't make him spend every Christmas with my family. In fact, he rarely sees them either. We spend Christmas at home, just us. - And are you happy with that? (I wasn't making a point, other than, we don't know the dynamic, it was just one of literally millions of possibilities)


Someone asked if he never lifted a finger after the first child, why did we go on to have another two children. I don't think I ever said he doesn't lift a finger. (In my original post I said that "I do everything" - what I meant by this, and I'm sorry I didn't make this clearer in my OP, was that I am the main care-provider so where does that leave me in terms of where we'd live, would he have to move out, would the children and I have to move out, would he have to continue to pay for us to stay there, or would we have to sell up and split the equity, and how would that be split, etc. I really am clueless to my rights, hence posting on here.) - No he wouldn't have to pay for you. He would have to pay child maintenance, assuming kids lived with you (not guaranteed of course) You may have to move out, but unlikely until youngest is 18, however if you cant afford it, then you will of course have to move out. (He would also not have to move out necessarily.)


So, whilst I'm the main caregiver and do the bulk of the chores, he does do the odd thing. He might play in the garden with them, he runs the occasional bath, he clears the odd table and washes up occasionally - but the bulk is done by me. - Which is a balance given he works full time. But this wasn't really a complaint. I am happy to do most of that as he works full time. HOWEVER, during his "time off" he really thinks it is ok to sit watching sport for a few hours, or to sit browsing his mobile phone, but it's not ok for me to be resentful when I'm still running around while he does nothing. - Then you should arrange your own 'annual leave' just like he has. Its fairly reasonable for him to have down time. Annual leave is for that reason. I'm resentful because I don't get the luxury of sitting down reading a magazine while he does the weekly shop, or gets lunch ready. That just doesn't happen. Almost every day, he will ask "what's for dinner?". He would never say "I'm going to make xyz for dinner for us all tonight" - it just wouldn't enter his radar. - Have you thought about cooking together?


So, to summarise, he's resentful of my "nagging" and I'm resentful of being taken for granted. (And, I'd just like to add that my "nagging" usually takes the form of a tongue-in-cheek "can I get a bit of help here with this while you're watching the rugby?") - That is nagging. It's a really negative way to be. I'm not saying he shouldn't do more, but that kind of comment is clearly designed to have a dig at him.


But I hardly thought it justifiable to blow up like a bottle of pop, shout, push me, tell me he doesn't love me and tell me he doesn't want custody of the children either (though I knew this last point to be a lie - he'd fight me all the way for custody) - but he said all of this in front of our children (oh, and to answer someone else earlier, the children are aged 7yrs, 4yrs and 18mths) . - Custody doesn't exist in the UK. That aside, no it doesn't make that ok. But neither is it justified to hen peck him. Our middle daughter ran off and hid under her bed when he was shouting. I NEVER want my children to hear or see us argue, and he knew this as we'd had a conversation about it a while ago. When he started to shout and it was clear that he wasn't going to calm down, I BEGGED him not to do it in front of the children, but he still carried on - Why didn't you walk away? why make the situation worse? Again it's his fault, but you could've done something about it. 'Im not discussing this, end of' - getting louder and angrier.


Regardless of what an awful wife I might be, or how much I nag, regardless of how much stress he is under at work, I don't think it's ever acceptable to get so angry that it makes your child cower under a bed. - No it's not.


For all his bad points, there are many more good points. For all my bad points, I also have many good points. I want our marriage to work because I DO love him and I want my children to be raised by both of us living under one roof. However, for this to happen, I think we both have to change.

Agreed.


And that means no more snide comments, both having down time and talking to each other openly.

hazyjo

pushing40 wrote: »

Almost every day, he will ask "what's for dinner?". He would never say "I'm going to make xyz for dinner for us all tonight" - it just wouldn't enter his radar.


So, to summarise, he's resentful of my "nagging" and I'm resentful of being taken for granted. (And, I'd just like to add that my "nagging" usually takes the form of a tongue-in-cheek "can I get a bit of help here with this while you're watching the rugby?")

I don't think to offer either. I always say 'what's for dinner' to my OH. I occasionally cook on a Sat night - sometimes at his suggestion, sometimes because I want to. I love cooking and he adores everything I make, but I never do it in the week now. It has become his role/job, so that's what happens. Unless you make a regular arrangement, such as him cooking on a Sat, or a specific weeknight, it will never change.


The second para I quoted would niggle me too though. It's a dig. You're quite possibly only asking for help because you begrudge him sitting there watching rugby while you're doing something in the kitchen. So give him a job to do when he wants to - not when you want him to do it.


I work 5 long days a week and let my OH stay home (no kids) so yes I do expect to get my weekends free. He does everything. What would be the point of me working 5 days a week, only to have to come home on the weekend to do housework/chores? We have both felt bitter on occasion, but rarely these days. Seems to work well for us.


Can you afford to pay for help? A cleaner? Ironing lady?


Jx