Will Britain really leave EU?

DollarSaver

mrginge wrote: »

That's your opinion based on what you think the fall out will be. Other people may consider the fall out to be rather less serious. Obviously you believe those other people to be stupid.


Well that's slightly patronising. Perhaps those people couldn't give a stuff what you think about them. And really, why should they? You most likely live a completely different life that bears no relation to theirs and as such you can't really have much of an idea about what they think or why they think it.

Perhaps the highly intelligent in our society like your good self should have taken the time to understand why those people feel the way they do, rather than simply write them off.



Well if you are so narrow minded as to take the actions of a few and ascribe their views and morals to just over half the electorate then I wonder if you're actually as intelligent as you like to paint yourself.

Maybe the poor and/or on benefits or those on low wages which you seem to be describing should be seen as having to accept responsibility for their own decisions just like anyone else.

They are not exempt from the consequences of their own bad decision making, whether their decision was simply a mistake, that they were fooled by politicians, that they protested or that they thought they would gain more money from their vote. They are to be in part along with politicians to be held accountable and responsible for their decision.

Just because you are less well off does not mean you do not have a responsibility to your country's well being.

mrginge

SingleSue wrote: »

To put it another way, it appears that remain voters are assumed by a fair few leave voters to be middle class or above and rich/high earners and I really don't understand why. I've seen on various forums including this very thread and social media about remain voters being out of touch with normal people (whatever normal actually is).

The issue is that it is very easy to take a narrow demographic grouping (I.e 'old people' whatever that means), estimate that more people in that group voted in a particular way and then apply that criteria to everyone who voted the same way.

Then people who have very entrenched views use that flawed logic to score points. I suspect we have a number of educated older posters who voted remain and are very happy to make the generic claim that poorly-educated people voted leave, while ignoring the fact that their own profile does not fit with the equally generic assertion that older people voted to leave.

Forums like this are jam packed with people with entrenched views from both sides of the debate.


Edit. Just look at the post above for an example...

DollarSaver

movilogo wrote: »

This is very subjective opinion. Who exactly understands the economy? Economy is not a science like physics or maths formulas.

Immigration control is indeed a key aspect for Brexit. While the official question was about leaving EU, most electorates voted for following question "Do you think UK should continue to allow unlimited EU migration? Select Leave for No and Remain for Yes".

I also think it was simply perceived :

Do you want more or less money ? Brexiters who voted out suspected the latter despite being told that would not be the case. :T

For all the "It was not just about money" or "It was not about immigration" It was about selfishness, spoiling young people's options, isolating ourselves, closet racism, blaming anyone except yourself (not taking responsibility for your own life decisions) hitting the wrong target (E.U. instead of U.K. government), small mindedness, sense of being owed something deserved that has been taken away by someone or some thing, "sharing the pain" and not understanding how the modern world works and interlinked economies.

All rather unpleasant motivations.

What do people expect exactly ? There is an health service, social security, social housing for many. Today the real working class are those in sweat shops making our goods in Chinese factories with suicide nets round the walls.

I think many simply felt it could not get worse. It can and now will.

mrginge

DollarSaver wrote: »

Maybe the poor and/or on benefits or those on low wages which you seem to be describing should be seen as having to accept responsibility for their own decisions just like anyone else.

They are not exempt from the consequences of their own bad decision making, whether their decision was simply a mistake, that they were fooled by politicians, that they protested or that they thought they would gain more money from their vote. They are to be in part along with politicians to be held accountable and responsible for their decision.

Just because you are less well off does not mean you do not have a responsibility to your country's well being.

Your post is entirely based around blame and division.
Not only that but the blame is based on an outcome that has not been realised but is just formed in your own head.
And the division is, as I have pointed out stereotypical nonsense.

DollarSaver

Don't lecture me about division.

Give more credit to Brexiters, they knew this was all about division just like Farage did. This was planned and to that end it went well for the right wing and its supporters. That is what this is really about.

Punish those who took what I was owed.

TrickyTree83

DollarSaver wrote: »

Don't lecture me about division.

Give more credit to Brexiters, they knew this was all about division just like Farage did. This was planned and to that end it went well for the right wing and its supporters. That is what this is really about.

Punish those who took what I was owed.

Could it not be that the left has promoted the very bigotry (against conservatism) that it professes to hate? Therefore ignoring large numbers of peoples views that don't align with the ideals of the left therefore they're just plain wrong?

Herzlos

martinthebandit wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom

From that link:

Main export partners
2015:[10]
United States 14.6%
Germany 10.1%
Switzerland 7%
China 6%
France 5.9%
Netherlands 5.8%
Ireland 5.5%

So 5 of our top 7 export partners are in the EU, accounting for 33.4% of our trade. The other 2 are big ones, totaling 20.6%. Any countries not in the top 7 must be responsible for less than 5.5% of trade. So our non-EU trading is going to have to grow an awful lot before it overtakes our EU trade, no?

Import is even more heavily EU:

Main import partners
2015:[12]
Germany 14.8%
China 9.8%
United States 9.2%
Netherlands 7.5%
France 5.8%
Belgium 5%

That's 33% EU, 19% Non-EU, 4 of top 6 being in EU, 2 being external.

No mention of Canada, Korea, NZ or Aus in either list.

TrickyTree83

Herzlos wrote: »

From that link:

Main export partners
2015:[10]
United States 14.6%
Germany 10.1%
Switzerland 7%
China 6%
France 5.9%
Netherlands 5.8%
Ireland 5.5%

So 5 of our top 7 export partners are in the EU, accounting for 33.4% of our trade. The other 2 are big ones, totaling 20.6%. Any countries not in the top 7 must be responsible for less than 5.5% of trade. So our non-EU trading is going to have to grow an awful lot before it overtakes our EU trade, no?

Import is even more heavily EU:

Main import partners
2015:[12]
Germany 14.8%
China 9.8%
United States 9.2%
Netherlands 7.5%
France 5.8%
Belgium 5%

That's 33% EU, 19% Non-EU, 4 of top 6 being in EU, 2 being external.

No mention of Canada, Korea, NZ or Aus in either list.

4 of them are in the EU.

DollarSaver

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Could it not be that the left has promoted the very bigotry (against conservatism) that it professes to hate? Therefore ignoring large numbers of peoples views that don't align with the ideals of the left therefore they're just plain wrong?

Don't over complicate it. This is about punishment of the perceived problem. UKIP was always about simple solutions to complex modern world issues. Populist ideas that unthinking people can seemingly grasp. You saw what a danger Farage was to the U.K. in his last E.U. parliament speech.

mrginge

DollarSaver wrote: »

Don't lecture me about division.

Give more credit to Brexiters, they knew this was all about division just like Farage did. This was planned and to that end it went well for the right wing and its supporters. That is what this is really about.

Punish those who took what I was owed.

I'd love to know what you think you were owed.