Will Britain really leave EU?

TrickyTree83

zagubov wrote: »

Switzerland is technically outside the single market but recreates a virtual version of it via individual treaties; furthermore it is in customs union, currency union, is in a defence pact with and shares diplomatic missions with a single market member.

What?

Are you sure about the currency union, are you sure you're talking about Switzerland?

Switzerland are not in the EU, it's as simple as that, they can strike their own trade deals. They should not be included in statistics claiming to represent a total of EU trade. That would be like including trade statistics with Iceland, Norway and Turkey as within the EU.

Herzlos

Is it relevant anyway? My point is just as clear if you ignore Switzerland.

zagubov

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

What?

Are you sure about the currency union, are you sure you're talking about Switzerland?

Switzerland are not in the EU, it's as simple as that, they can strike their own trade deals. They should not be included in statistics claiming to represent a total of EU trade. That would be like including trade statistics with Iceland, Norway and Turkey as within the EU.

They share a currency etc. with Leichtenstein which is in the single market via EEA membership.

They're not in the EU right enough (it's only recently they've joined the UN).

TrickyTree83

Herzlos wrote: »

Is it relevant anyway? My point is just as clear if you ignore Switzerland.

Well clarity is important when you work with statistics. The further removed you get from your foundation data the greater the inaccuracy.

So if it's a problem for the UK to re-orient ~20% of its trade, what on earth makes you say in the Scotland thread that Scotland is better off in the EU than the UK when 64% of Scottish trade is with the UK and only 15% with the EU?

I often find this on that Scotland thread. What's bad for the UK as a whole is bizarrely good for Scotland. It's like a Bermuda Triangle for logic.

TrickyTree83

zagubov wrote: »

They share a currency etc. with Leichtenstein which is in the single market via EEA membership.

They're not in the EU right enough (it's only recently they've joined the UN).

It's a bit of a stretch saying they're in a currency union when it's controlled by the Swiss. That's like saying Ecuador is in a currency union with the USA.

SingleSue

mrginge wrote: »

The issue is that it is very easy to take a narrow demographic grouping (I.e 'old people' whatever that means), estimate that more people in that group voted in a particular way and then apply that criteria to everyone who voted the same way.

Then people who have very entrenched views use that flawed logic to score points. I suspect we have a number of educated older posters who voted remain and are very happy to make the generic claim that poorly-educated people voted leave, while ignoring the fact that their own profile does not fit with the equally generic assertion that older people voted to leave.

Forums like this are jam packed with people with entrenched views from both sides of the debate.


Edit. Just look at the post above for an example...

I've actually seen the arguement from the other side, the leave voters saying the remainers are out of touch with normal people because they don't know the struggles of the 'little man' rather than the remainers saying all leave voters are uneducated, although that has started to be said in response.

For the record, I voted remain.

mrginge

SingleSue wrote: »

I've actually seen the arguement from the other side, the leave voters saying the remainers are out of touch with normal people because they don't know the struggles of the 'little man' rather than the remainers saying all leave voters are uneducated, although that has started to be said in response.

For the record, I voted remain.

I wasn't suggesting that only remain voters are guilty as clearly there are going to be similar statements made from those on the leave side.

i think on balance there is probably more of that coming out of certain remainers though, purely because they don't like losing and need to kick off a bit. Perfectly understandable really, but it's nothing that won't decline as we move forward.

I suspect that the main basis of complaint from many of those angry leavers is that they have been economically, socially and politically disenfranchised for years. Then they get an opportunity to actually have their vote matter and the result is that they are told that they are stupid, selfish or racist.

Hopefully over the coming months as we get more clarity on where we go a lot of this type of debate will go away and we start to focus on making the future work rather than replaying the past.

mayonnaise

DollarSaver wrote: »

I think many simply felt it could not get worse. It can and now will.

'Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.'

― George Carlin

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

No, I'm pointing out that "non-EU sales are increasing" is somewhat meaningless when it's so far behind, and that we shouldn't be ditching the EU in order to trade externally.

Post-Brexit, sales to/from the EU will definitely slow down, or at least become more expensive.

given the pound has devalued against the euro, the price of UK goods in the EU has got cheaper

Herzlos

CLAPTON wrote: »

given the pound has devalued against the euro, the price of UK goods in the EU has got cheaper

Same with the rest of the world. They've got more expensive in the other direction too. But what's that got to do with whatever we're meant to be talking about?