Will Britain really leave EU?

TrickyTree83

Herzlos wrote: »

Once they meet all of the required criteria, I'm all for them joining. You're trying really hard to make a link between free movement and Turkey. Why does it have to be ASAP?

Does the EU criteria include being a secular democracy to ensure they don't oppress minority religions?

I wouldn't be as quick as others to permit Turkey EU membership given recent events, the purge of academia in relation to a military coup attempt seems to be stretching the truth somewhat.

AnotherJoe

Herzlos wrote: »

You seem to have completely missed the point. A non-EU musician playing in the UK has to get a VISA and has all sorts of paperwork checks. Most bands that visit the EU do a European tour - can you imagine having to get a VISA and customs clearance for every single country?

But we're talking about getting a visa for the EU and one country, not all of them so thats a complete straw man. It doesn't affect people wanting to do business with USA or Canada does it? . And that country, the UK, is the fifth largest economy in the world, so there's enough of an incentive for people to do that and even to be based here if our exchange rate and taxes make it right.

Herzlos

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Does the EU criteria include being a secular democracy to ensure they don't oppress minority religions?

I wouldn't be as quick as others to permit Turkey EU membership given recent events, the purge of academia in relation to a military coup attempt seems to be stretching the truth somewhat.

One of the requirements I'm sure they'll fall short on is:
"stable institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities;"

Turkey was struggling to meet the criteria as is, but this coup and reaction will have put it back a long way, if Erdogan is even interested in joining the EU anymore.

mayonnaise

movilogo wrote: »

Immigration control is indeed a key aspect for Brexit. While the official question was about leaving EU, most electorates voted for following question "Do you think UK should continue to allow unlimited EU migration? Select Leave for No and Remain for Yes".

Oh okay. So a question was asked but 'most electorates' voted on a totally different question?
Let's be clear here, the question was to remain or leave the EU.
Nothing less, nothing more.

Herzlos

Some people thinking the question was whether we want foreigners to "remain or leave" doesn't mean that's what the question actually was.

Just because the Leave campaign brought everything back round to immigration, doesn't mean that's the whole issue.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

movilogo wrote: »

Immigration control is indeed a key aspect for Brexit. .

Definitely not on my ballot paper.

Did the Brexiters get a different one?

Besides - having the ability to control immigration in no way means that we would actually reduce immigration - unemployment is currently at 4.9% and has been falling rapidly - and average wages are rising at 2% above inflation.*

Any objective politician would look at those numbers and see that the current net migration levels are being fully absorbed by the economy and then some.






*Granted this may well reverse shortly thanks to the Brexit DIY recession

movilogo

o a question was asked but 'most electorates' voted on a totally different question?

Yes, there is a proverb that a good communication is listening to what is not being said.

Here are 4 fundamental rules for EU.

CHAPTER 1: FREE MOVEMENT OF GOODS
CHAPTER 2: FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT FOR WORKERS
CHAPTER 3: RIGHT OF ESTABLISHMENT AND FREEDOM TO PROVIDE SERVICES
CHAPTER 4: FREE MOVEMENT OF CAPITAL

http://www.europeanpolicy.org/en/european-policies/single-market.html

Which one do you think most people have problem with?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

movilogo wrote: »

Which one do you think most people have problem with?

No idea.

But I do know which one most people ignorant of the facts have a problem with.

TrickyTree83

Herzlos wrote: »

Some people thinking the question was whether we want foreigners to "remain or leave" doesn't mean that's what the question actually was.

Just because the Leave campaign brought everything back round to immigration, doesn't mean that's the whole issue.

Exactly.

Glad this appears to be put to bed now. Perhaps the stigmatising of leave voters can stop now too?

The only part of the EU I intensely disagree with is shackling economies by having to agree trade deals unanimously. If there's a deal on the table that will benefit 27 of the 28 nations, but that 28th nation has toilet seat manufacturers that cannot compete with the countries being inducted into the free trade area from outside the EU it should not stop it. But it does.

It's intriguing that people want to remove free movement walls which stop criminals but don't want to remove free trade walls which promotes criminality, when you can't feed yourself or your family and smuggling pays well - you're going to smuggle kids/drugs/sex workers/slaves/counterfeit goods/etc...

As a libertarian I would promote a true free market, rather than a single market. Successful business thrives whilst poorly run business is allowed to fail. If Libiyan farmers can produce goods that we want to buy, why put a tariff on them because someone somewhere in the EU doesn't want to lose their job/business/monopoly? The only barriers we should have are for the safety of the people residing within the borders of our country - immigrant or not.

mayonnaise

movilogo wrote: »

Yes, there is a proverb that a good communication is listening to what is not being said.

Here are 4 fundamental rules for EU.

CHAPTER 1: FREE MOVEMENT OF GOODS
CHAPTER 2: FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT FOR WORKERS
CHAPTER 3: RIGHT OF ESTABLISHMENT AND FREEDOM TO PROVIDE SERVICES
CHAPTER 4: FREE MOVEMENT OF CAPITAL

http://www.europeanpolicy.org/en/european-policies/single-market.html

Which one do you think most people have problem with?

We could leave the EU, still adhere to these 4 chapters and the democratic mandate of the referendum would have been met. I love democracy.