Will Britain really leave EU?

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

I'm showing the Leave campaigns scaremongering.

The big implication is that if Turkey joins, we'll be flooded with Syrian/Iragi refugees, which is false (as they still won't get through any passport checks) and irrelevant (because Turkey isn't going to join the EU).


But if we leave and do allow free movement of people, then it is a significant issue for us, and we'll get no say in it.

There's no guarantee we'll manage to get a suitable EU deal that doesn't involve free movement. It's in no-ones best interests.

surely a non racist like you is completed unconcerned about being 'flooded' by syrian/iragi (or any other) refugees.

whether we accept a deal involving free movement of people is up to us alone.

Herzlos

I didn't say anything about not agreeing with us doing our part to help refugees. I'm just pointing out that for those who voted leave to prevent migration, they've actually just made it worse for themselves because they've realistically voted away their options to reduce migration.

Agreed, it's up to use to choose what deal to accept, but we'd be pretty stupid to turn down a common market deal over the free movement clause. Unless the plan is to avoid immigrants by making the UK worse than wherever they are fleeing from by driving all of our businesses out into Europe.

gfplux

Herzlos wrote: »

You seem to have completely missed the point. A non-EU musician playing in the UK has to get a VISA and has all sorts of paperwork checks. Most bands that visit the EU do a European tour - can you imagine having to get a VISA and customs clearance for every single country?

If you spend 95% of your touring time in Europe but not the UK, then without the common market freedoms, it'll be much easier to base yourself in, say, Belgium, and then fill in the paperwork to visit the UK (if it's still financially viable to bother), rather than being based in the UK and having to fill out the paperwork every time you leave.



So have I. I've even studied there. But I had to visit the US Embassy in London to get a VISA for school, and had to fill out VISA paperwork for business (normally the ESTA waiver). Conversely, I've done business in a couple of European countries and all I needed was a passport and boarding pass.

Totally agree with you.
We have all heard of low hanging fruit, leaving the EU will make fruit picking more difficult.
I have often said before and after Brexit that it will be all the very small decisions by people and businesses that will hurt Britain.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

what could possibility be scaremongering about Turkey joining the EU.

Nice bit of Devil's Advocate.

You know the answer though. Turkey contains Muslims and people with browner skin. The leave campaign were clearly suggesting a leave vote would minimise the risk of them arriving here.

The remain camp tried to calm people who worry about such things by saying Turkey wasn't going to join the EU but were not believed because Cameron was mad keen on them joining by October.

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

I didn't say anything about not agreeing with us doing our part to help refugees. I'm just pointing out that for those who voted leave to prevent migration, they've actually just made it worse for themselves because they've realistically voted away their options to reduce migration.

Agreed, it's up to use to choose what deal to accept, but we'd be pretty stupid to turn down a common market deal over the free movement clause. Unless the plan is to avoid immigrants by making the UK worse than wherever they are fleeing from by driving all of our businesses out into Europe.

You must have been living on another planet for the last few months.

Restriction on immigration is a KEY aspect of the brexit and is part of our ability to rule ourselves and make our own laws.

In what was did our membership of the EU stop 1 million migrants entering the EU last years?

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

Restriction on immigration is a KEY aspect of the brexit and is part of our ability to rule ourselves and make our own laws.

Did you see that in the plan?

mayonnaise

CLAPTON wrote: »

Restriction on immigration is a KEY aspect of the brexit

The ballot paper I received didn't mention immigration at all.

TrickyTree83

CLAPTON wrote: »

You must have been living on another planet for the last few months.

Restriction on immigration is a KEY aspect of the brexit and is part of our ability to rule ourselves and make our own laws.

In what was did our membership of the EU stop 1 million migrants entering the EU last years?

Wasn't key for me.

The UK actually had a pretty good set up which I would like to maintain as part of the EEA/EFTA.

The rest of the EU is potentially in trouble because of Schengen, you only need to bribe someone on the external border of the EU to get into most of it.

Absolute free movement allows bad people to do bad things. Border checks need to be re-instated, which is why Hungary are going about doing that regardless of what the EU says.

But I'll be branded racist and islamophobic for suggesting border checks are required. Even though criminals come in all colours.

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

Did you see that in the plan?

I thought we have covered this comprehensively and agreed that Cameron and the remain goverrnment of the day
-lied on an industrial scale
-refused civil service resources to develop an exit plan
-forced the BoE to make up ludicrous forecasts (since mainly forgotten about)
-collude with George to lie about an emergency budget
-tricked elderly senior ex-military people to sign nonsense about WW3
- etc etc

and so of course there was no-one that had the legal authority to develop a plan.

CLAPTON

mayonnaise wrote: »

The ballot paper I received didn't mention immigration at all.

I have never voted in any general election where spending, taxation, education, NHS, help for disability, support for the IRA etc was on the ballot paper
That doesn't stop me and about 40 million others having some expectations however.