Will Britain really leave EU?

BobQ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Many people put quality of life before money. Not that they are seeing any benefit anyway with average wages barely keeping pace with inflation for the past 15 years. A financially well off mobile elite aren't representative of the majority.

The question is: when leaving the EU does not solve their problem who will they blame?

globalds

BobQ wrote: »

The question is: when leaving the EU does not solve their problem who will they blame?

Depends what the problem is ..Maybe our elected representatives could be held to account.

The real question is .How do you get a bunch of bad losers to stop wanting to run away with their ball when the result goes against them ?

CKhalvashi

AnotherJoe wrote: »

They are already backtracking on it according to press articles over the last couple of days (which of course may be as reliable as next months weather forecast). And why not? USA, Canada dont have open borders with the EU and they seem to trade with Europe without any issues, so why cant the UK ?

Because solving the issue of trade isn't dealing with the issue of a single customs union and the need within a lot of businesses of freedom of movement for people to be able to do their jobs.

Live music events is one of the big ones I can see there being an issue with, for myself included, as my business requires being able to move musicians/vehicles/crew throughout the EU. You can probably appreciate that this is a lot easier without having to fill out enough paperwork to build a bridge between the UK and France to drive over.

To get what the leavers want is going to cause me huge issues, to the extent that it's going to be a lot easier to move the business onto the mainland, which ultimately over the next 3-4 years is now looking like it could be the plan (although I have to stress that no final decision has yet been made).

Europe is a lot closer than the US and Canada as a target market.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

CKhalvashi wrote: »

To get what the leavers want is going to cause me huge issues, to the extent that it's going to be a lot easier to move the business onto the mainland

And you're absolutely not alone in that regard - there are tens of thousands of businesses with hundreds of thousands of employees that'll be in the same situation - and the billions of pounds they create for the economy then goes on to support jobs for millions of other people whose business has nothing to do with Europe.

Unfortunately large sections of the UK population do not appreciate how an economy works and have not (yet) understood the implications of a full-fat Brexit should we get one.

I suppose it'll take them losing their jobs because much of the wealth creation has moved away from the diminished and declining UK for them to finally understand...... and even then I wouldn't put it past them to still try and blame Europe somehow.

SingleSue

BobQ wrote: »

That is always a problem using industry specific expressions - how they are viewed by outsiders.

I once worked with a chap whose wife came out with the expression "when I was on the game". I imagine my facial expression alerted her to the need to add with a smile " I was a midwife, that's how we described the job"

I understood the term perfectly well and I am a carer to a relative.

My only link to the industry and it is a very very weak link at that, is that I own and run a website where although some coding is required, it is very minimal and below basement basic (would have to be, I didn't even know how to copy and paste when I set the blooming thing up 11 years ago, I pressed buttons and hoped for the best and then did some reading and playing with code later!)

cells

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

And you're absolutely not alone in that regard - there are tens of thousands of businesses with hundreds of thousands of employees that'll be in the same situation - and the billions of pounds they create for the economy then goes on to support jobs for millions of other people whose business has nothing to do with Europe.

Unfortunately large sections of the UK population do not appreciate how an economy works and have not (yet) understood the implications of a full-fat Brexit should we get one.

I suppose it'll take them losing their jobs because much of the wealth creation has moved away from the diminished and declining UK for them to finally understand...... and even then I wouldn't put it past them to still try and blame Europe somehow.

If the UK can get free trade deals with USA/Japan/Aus/Canada and a few more in time will that not offset some maybe most the pain?

I voted stay in but things don't yet look to be headed to hell. Also we might be surprised maybe the UK will get a good deal from the EU. Who else is going to vote leave even if the UK deal is a good one. Most the members are net takers so why would they leave. Even a good UK deal will look poor compared to what they get out of the EU

CKhalvashi

cells wrote: »

Even a good UK deal will look poor compared to what they get out of the EU

Which means that (generally) a good UK deal would look poor compared to what the UK gets out of the EU.

ETA: I'm not talking in purely governmental financial terms, but in general financial terms for everyday people.

What we import is free of tarriffs. What we export is free of tarriffs. The fact that we import more than export is probably better for peoples pockets in the UK, however it's also largely (IMO) the fault of British business, rather than a fault with the EU.

mrginge

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

And you're absolutely not alone in that regard - there are tens of thousands of businesses with hundreds of thousands of employees that'll be in the same situation - and the billions of pounds they create for the economy then goes on to support jobs for millions of other people whose business has nothing to do with Europe.

There are literally gazillions of people in this country who will be forced to live in cardboard boxes because hundreds of squillions of pounds has left the economy because 3475 bajiliion companies have relocated to Germany.

In brighter news, sales of Prozac have skyrocketed following publication of Hamish's doom-laden predictions.

AnotherJoe

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Because solving the issue of trade isn't dealing with the issue of a single customs union and the need within a lot of businesses of freedom of movement for people to be able to do their jobs.

Live music events is one of the big ones I can see there being an issue with, for myself included, as my business requires being able to move musicians/vehicles/crew throughout the EU. You can probably appreciate that this is a lot easier without having to fill out enough paperwork to build a bridge between the UK and France to drive over.
.

I can see your point, after all no musicians from outside the EU ever play at festivals such as Glastonbury, IOW and Reading due to that problem.

And I must have imagined going to USA on business trips because obviously there's no single market between EU and USA so doing business there must be impossible without free movement of anyone from USA coming over here to live as they please.

its obviously absolutely impossible to have any other set up to trade within Europe than allowing all of its citizens to come and live here if they wish. Simply impossible and not within the scope of anyone's ability to arrange otherwise.

And also I imagined that prior to 1973 any businesses in the UK did any trade on the continent as without free movement of people it was obviously impossible.

mwpt

martinthebandit wrote: »

I voted leave for a number of reasons one of which is that I considered the remain position on immigration to be racist.

I would prefer fair and proportionate immigration from anywhere in the world not just unlimited from Europe and unfairly restricted as a consequence from elsewhere in the world.

I don't think anyone believes you.