Will Britain really leave EU?

System

I'm not following the logic here.

1. Leave campaign use the possibility of Turkey joining the EU as a reason to leave the EU.
2. This makes Remain racist.

Clapton you've having a mare lately.

CLAPTON

Joeskeppi wrote: »

I'm not following the logic here.

1. Leave campaign use the possibility of Turkey joining the EU as a reason to leave the EU.
2. This makes Remain racist.

Clapton you've having a mare lately.

It was the REMAIN camp that claimed that the 'threat' of Turkey joining was a scaremongering;

why would anyone in the 'remain' find the thought of Turkey joining any way scary?
surely the 'remain ' camp should have been shouting from the hill tops that Turkey would be joining asap? (unless it was a frightening thought to 'remain and leavers' alike)

CLAPTON

gadgetmind wrote: »

See the Ashcroft survey regards attitudes of Leave and Remain voters towards immigration and multi-culturalism. I think those figures give you the answer albeit not the one you seem to want.

but the remain camp aren't advocating Turkey and other non white countries should join asap.
or have I missed something?

However, I would expect that people who want fewer immigrants to come to the UK, would indeed want fewer immigrant to come to the Uk : so no great surprise there.

mwpt

CLAPTON wrote: »

It was the REMAIN camp that claimed that the 'threat' of Turkey joining was a scaremongering;

why would anyone in the 'remain' find the thought of Turkey joining any way scary?
surely the 'remain ' camp should have been shouting from the hill tops that Turkey would be joining asap? (unless it was a frightening thought to 'remain and leavers' alike)

The leave camp used the threat of Turkey joining the EU as a tactic to appeal to those that are anti-immigration or plain old racists.

The remain camp know that the leave camp are generally anti-immigration and often more racist.

The remain camp knew that Turkey wasn't going to join the EU anytime soon so in order to try to prevent some of those with an anti-immigrant or racist stance from being swayed toward voting leave, they pointed out the truth about Turkey and pointed out that the leave camp were lying (as usual) and scaremongering.

It's pretty simple, pretty sure you understand all this but you are a deceitful person so I understand why you're trying to frame it another way.

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

The leave camp used the threat of Turkey joining the EU as a tactic to appeal to those that are anti-immigration or plain old racists.

The remain camp know that the leave camp are generally anti-immigration and often more racist.

The remain camp knew that Turkey wasn't going to join the EU anytime soon so in order to try to prevent some of those with an anti-immigrant or racist stance from being swayed toward voting leave, they pointed out the truth about Turkey and pointed out that the leave camp were lying (as usual) and scaremongering.

It's pretty simple, pretty sure you understand all this but you are a deceitful person so I understand why you're trying to frame it another way.

what could possibility be scaremongering about Turkey joining the EU.

gadgetmind

CLAPTON wrote: »

have I missed something?

Yes, you've missed the fact that Remain voters predominantly don't hold or express racist views, whereas many Leave voters very much do.

And regards "non white country", what on earth is one of those? Most countries have a wide mix of ethnic backgrounds in their population. And again, Remain voters tend to see multi-culturalism as a positive whereas the Leave voters clearly don't think that mixing colours and religions is a good thing.

I'm currently going through the visa process for a guy from Pakistan and really wish this was a whole lot easier. Sadly he may not remain in the UK much longer as he no longer feels welcome.

Herzlos

AnotherJoe wrote: »

I can see your point, after all no musicians from outside the EU ever play at festivals such as Glastonbury, IOW and Reading due to that problem.

You seem to have completely missed the point. A non-EU musician playing in the UK has to get a VISA and has all sorts of paperwork checks. Most bands that visit the EU do a European tour - can you imagine having to get a VISA and customs clearance for every single country?

If you spend 95% of your touring time in Europe but not the UK, then without the common market freedoms, it'll be much easier to base yourself in, say, Belgium, and then fill in the paperwork to visit the UK (if it's still financially viable to bother), rather than being based in the UK and having to fill out the paperwork every time you leave.

And I must have imagined going to USA on business trips because obviously there's no single market between EU and USA so doing business there must be impossible without free movement of anyone from USA coming over here to live as they please.

So have I. I've even studied there. But I had to visit the US Embassy in London to get a VISA for school, and had to fill out VISA paperwork for business (normally the ESTA waiver). Conversely, I've done business in a couple of European countries and all I needed was a passport and boarding pass.

Herzlos

CLAPTON wrote: »

what could possibility be scaremongering about Turkey joining the EU.

However, the Remain campaign pointed out that Turkey wasn't likely to join the EU for another few decades, and that whilst in the EU, the UK has veto. Now that we're throwing away our veto, if Turkey joins, we can do nothing but let them join.

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

However, the Remain campaign pointed out that Turkey wasn't likely to join the EU for another few decades, and that whilst in the EU, the UK has veto. Now that we're throwing away our veto, if Turkey joins, we can do nothing but let them join.

No idea what point you are making but as you know Cameron (who would still be PM if we had 'remain'ed), was totally committed to Turkey joining.

If we leave and don't allow free movement of people, then whether they join or not is not a significant issue for us.

Herzlos

CLAPTON wrote: »

No idea what point you are making but as you know Cameron (who would still be PM if we had 'remain'ed), was totally committed to Turkey joining.

I'm showing the Leave campaigns scaremongering.

The big implication is that if Turkey joins, we'll be flooded with Syrian/Iragi refugees, which is false (as they still won't get through any passport checks) and irrelevant (because Turkey isn't going to join the EU).

If we leave and don't allow free movement of people, then whether they join or not is not a significant issue for us.

But if we leave and do allow free movement of people, then it is a significant issue for us, and we'll get no say in it.

There's no guarantee we'll manage to get a suitable EU deal that doesn't involve free movement. It's in no-ones best interests.