Will Britain really leave EU?

Tromking

gadgetmind wrote: »

On that we can agree.

Someone told me I needed to "get inside the minds of leave voters" but I immediately had flashbacks to Clarice Starling and it put me right off the idea.

Plenty of psychotic murderers on the rampage on mainland Europe at the moment. Better make sure you don't recruit one of them.

martinthebandit

I voted leave for a number of reasons one of which is that I considered the remain position on immigration to be racist.

I would prefer fair and proportionate immigration from anywhere in the world not just unlimited from Europe and unfairly restricted as a consequence from elsewhere in the world.

gadgetmind

martinthebandit wrote: »

I would prefer fair and proportionate immigration from anywhere in the world not just unlimited from Europe and unfairly restricted as a consequence from elsewhere in the world.

I think the whole world should be moving towards unlimited movement on a global basis, but sadly we seem to be moving in the opposite direction, with Brexit being another nail in the coffin.

gadgetmind

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

being able to negotiate trade deals with other countries independently

Out of interest, how much of your current business is outside the EU versus within the EU (but outside of the UK)?

My wife is an immigrant. EEA membership would be great.

That would entail us retaining the four key freedoms of the EU, and leave voters really don't like the one that lets people "not from around here" live next to them.

AnotherJoe

gadgetmind wrote: »

Everyone we interview is good so they are all going through the process at several companies. We discuss things openly with people and ask them to share what does/doesn't appeal about our offer. Getting people 50% of the time when they they're getting 4-5 offers from top companies is pretty good. I guess it depends which half you are getting. Are you getting the bottom half or the top half ? (this may be a false dichotomy of course). BUt I'm still staggered that only haf take the job. If I had invested that much time I'd be expecting 75% minimum and looking at ways to discard people who were going to bail earlier in the process. Or snapping up the top talent earlier. Or both.

At interview, we let them speak privately with some of our graduates who are 2-3 years in, if that's something they want to do. Feedback is that this tilts things in our direction, which is nice to know!

Our graduates get bi-annual pay reviews for the first three years so where they go after that £30k is very much down to them. They also get good mentoring, which is something they value. It seems only half value it the other half take more money immediately, elsewhere.

Of course, if you're more successful at hiring UK STEM graduates then I'm always happy to pick up tips.

My company is a leech and hires them from companies like yours 2-3 years down the road.

TrickyTree83

gadgetmind wrote: »

I think the whole world should be moving towards unlimited movement on a global basis, but sadly we seem to be moving in the opposite direction, with Brexit being another nail in the coffin.

Whoa, no no no.

Many things need to happen before that takes place. We value our secularism in the UK, that's not shared in many places across the globe. It's very naive to think that global unlimited movement is achievable whilst ideas like secularism in nation states is not predominant.

Free speech, free thinking, free religion, gender and racial equality are not homogeneous across the world. That should be the aim first of all. Brexit isn't really a nail in that coffin, that's quite an exaggeration. We still hold those values as a nation but perhaps disagree with the deployment methodology.

gadgetmind

AnotherJoe wrote: »

My company is a leech and hires them from companies like yours 2-3 years down the road.

We're *very* good at retaining people and many have worked for me for 20+ years, and a vast slew 10+.

TrickyTree83

gadgetmind wrote: »

Out of interest, how much of your current business is outside the EU versus within the EU (but outside of the UK)?

Most of our business is domestic. On that foundation we're building up globally rather than focusing on the EU market. In fact it has been much more difficult to get EU nations to take on the new ideas. The US, Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong, have been much more inviting and we've had much more success there. In the EU we've come up against the protectionism that people speak about since our logistics inventions would make certain supply chain methods and delivery methods obsolete. Having said that, we've just had the EU patents come through so it's likely now we'll be able to press ahead regardless.

That would entail us retaining the four key freedoms of the EU, and leave voters really don't like the one that lets people "not from around here" live next to them.

Well see this is the generalisation of leave voters because it suits a narrative. I voted leave, I'll openly admit that but I don't believe that the 4 freedoms are necessarily a bad thing. The monolithic EU political superstructure however does appear to be a barrier to success.

gadgetmind

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Many things need to happen before that takes place.

Agreed, but the changes need to occur hand-in-hand with increasingly free movement. We used to have it, but nation states took it away. What will give it back to us is groups of nation states working together.

Brexit isn't really a nail in that coffin, that's quite an exaggeration.

I'll agree as I'm an optimist, but it's certainly a massive retrograde step.

We still hold those values as a nation

I used to think we did but a recent referendum has shown me that I was deeply mistaken.

gadgetmind

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Well see this is the generalisation of leave voters because it suits a narrative.

OK, unfair to generalise, but the statistic certainly show that leave voters are heavily against immigration. (Ashcroft didn't ask whether EU or non-EU but I doubt many leave voters would differentiate.)

I'll openly admit that but I don't believe that the 4 freedoms are necessarily a bad thing.

I go further and really hope the UK can retain these precious freedoms as otherwise we're in big trouble. Hopefully the EU will make this a non-negotiable condition for gaining single market access.

Expect to see a *massive* backlash from the Leave camp if this happens. This is a testable prediction that I really hope is tested.