A Brexiters view

silverwhistle

CLAPTON wrote: »

Its really stupid that people have fought and died for what they considered independence and democracy

probably they were only kidding

Why is it that I get the impression that you would have supported Salazar in Portugal, Franco in Spain, the colonels in Greece and probably, in an earlier period, Petain in France?

silverwhistle

wymondham wrote: »

Its a hunch so no, but I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if bad news is coming after the vote if we stay in. Maybe something along the Turkey front ...

Absolute !!!!!!!!. Have you really not paid any attention to the general European sentiment about Turkey. Plus, at the moment, we have a veto on their entry. We would not be alone in using it and in fact I don't think at the moment that _ANY_ EU state would want them. So I wouldn't rely on your hunches, as they seem singularly innaccurate, and I won't be asking you for the winner of tomorrow's 18.20 at Ascot.

CLAPTON

silverwhistle wrote: »

Why is it that I get the impression that you would have supported Salazar in Portugal, Franco in Spain, the colonels in Greece and probably, in an earlier period, Petain in France?

because you are an idiot?

Kohoutek

wymondham wrote: »

Immigration.

Leaving the EU is far from a guarantee of reducing immigration. In fact, leaving the EU guarantees absolutely nothing at all on immigration:

1. Around 50% of our exports are to the EU single market. Realistically speaking, if the UK leaves the EU it will need to reach an agreement with the EU on access to the single market.

2. The only countries that have access to the EU single market that are not members of the EU (e.g. Norway, Switzerland) are required by the EU to accept EU immigration (or 'freedom of movement of workers' to use the technical term). Proportionally speaking, Norway and Switzerland actually have more EU migrants than the UK. They also: pay into the EU budget and are subject to EU law.

3. Half of net migration to the UK is from outside the EU

wymondham

Kohoutek wrote: »

Leaving the EU is far from a guarantee of reducing immigration. In fact, leaving the EU guarantees absolutely nothing at all on immigration:

1. Around 50% of our exports are to the EU single market. Realistically speaking, if the UK leaves the EU it will need to reach an agreement with the EU on access to the single market.

2. The only countries that have access to the EU single market that are not members of the EU (e.g. Norway, Switzerland) are required by the EU to accept EU immigration (or 'freedom of movement of workers' to use the technical term). Proportionally speaking, Norway and Switzerland actually have more EU migrants than the UK. They also: pay into the EU budget and are subject to EU law.

3. Half of net migration to the UK is from outside the EU

Understood, but in the EU we have zero chance of controlling borders, outside we have a chance.

CLAPTON

Kohoutek wrote: »

Leaving the EU is far from a guarantee of reducing immigration. In fact, leaving the EU guarantees absolutely nothing at all on immigration:

1. Around 50% of our exports are to the EU single market. Realistically speaking, if the UK leaves the EU it will need to reach an agreement with the EU on access to the single market.

2. The only countries that have access to the EU single market that are not members of the EU (e.g. Norway, Switzerland) are required by the EU to accept EU immigration (or 'freedom of movement of workers' to use the technical term). Proportionally speaking, Norway and Switzerland actually have more EU migrants than the UK. They also: pay into the EU budget and are subject to EU law.

3. Half of net migration to the UK is from outside the EU

1. the usual figure of uk exports is 45% and falling

2. most countries in the world trade to EU countries including NZ, Aus, s Korea, China, India, Brazil, USA, Saudi etc etc
try looking at the country of origin of the things you buy and the food you eat

3. indeed there is scope to reduce immigration from the rest of the world (7.5 billion population) as well as from the EU (only 0.5 billion population.

wymondham

silverwhistle wrote: »

Absolute !!!!!!!!. Have you really not paid any attention to the general European sentiment about Turkey. Plus, at the moment, we have a veto on their entry. We would not be alone in using it and in fact I don't think at the moment that _ANY_ EU state would want them. So I wouldn't rely on your hunches, as they seem singularly innaccurate, and I won't be asking you for the winner of tomorrow's 18.20 at Ascot.

Thanks for reply. I have been taking note, but with the growing issues on the Turkish border the EU is desperate to keep Turkey on board and cooperative, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are offered something to 'keep them sweet' (obviously not membership, but something to encourage them to remain on side).... all guess work... but guess work is abundant until after the vote!

I know we have a veto, but do you really think DC will use it? I doubt he would.

We'll pick this up in months ahead and see how inaccurate I am

ruggedtoast

wymondham wrote: »

Thanks for reply. I have been taking note, but with the big issues on the Turkish border with migrants etc the EU is desperate to keep Turkey on board and I wouldn't be surprised if they are offered something to 'keep them sweet' (obviously not membership, but something to encourage them to remain on side).... all guess work... but guess work is abundant until after the vote!

I know we have a veto, but do you really think DC will use it? I doubt he would.

We'll pick this up in months ahead and see how inaccurate I am

The UK has always been in favour of Turkish accession to the EU.

Of course, the swivel eyed racists that UKIP and, apparently, a large swathe of the Tory party represent aren't very keen on the the idea, but they aren't right about much.

Kohoutek

CLAPTON wrote: »

1. the usual figure of uk exports is 45% and falling

2. most countries in the world trade to EU countries including NZ, Aus, s Korea, China, India, Brazil, USA, Saudi etc etc
try looking at the country of origin of the things you buy and the food you eat

3. indeed there is scope to reduce immigration from the rest of the world (7.5 billion population) as well as from the EU (only 0.5 billion population.

1. Well 45% is quite a lot. Do you consider 45% of your income to be significant?

2. Yes of course non-EU countries can trade with the EU, but they do not trade on the same terms as EU countries (e.g. subject to tariffs). There is no European country which has access to the single market which does not also allow freedom of movement. Our economy is integrated into the single market. Realistically we will have to reach an agreement to remain in it.

3. Given it's never happened, it's probably safe to assume it won't.

Kohoutek

wymondham wrote: »

Understood, but in the EU we have zero chance of controlling borders, outside we have a chance.

You're right we have a chance in theory but realistically, given the structure of our economy / society, large scale immigration will continue even if we leave.

We are completely free to control our borders in respect of non-EU citizens. We are currently controlling them to the tune of allowing around 190,000 people / year to come to the UK.