The EU: IN or OUT?

silver145

ElsieMonkey wrote: »

I completely agree that the reality is something in between the scaremongering and utopia proposed by both sides whatever the outcome. However, I am strongly in favour of a Brexit because I do not want to maintain the status quo. All I know if that I feel the current situation isn't working so I want out.

:T
Finally someone with a reasonable point of view, my opinion is the same as yours, not happy with the current system so i am happy to see what comes out of it with a leave vote, be it better or worse. Never know until we try

chockydavid1983

ElsieMonkey wrote: »

I read something recently where the question was reversed. If it was a referendum to JOIN the EU (as the EU stands right now), would you vote to be a part of it, or would you vote to remain independent? Very interesting I thought, made me think.

Interesting question except we have no idea how the country would look now had we never joined

ElsieMonkey

ringo_24601 wrote: »

Now you see, no one has proposed how to limit non-EU migration, which exceeds EU migration into the country.

There's nothing to say we can't become a densely populated country, like many other countries, but we need to be planning for it and changing how our housing is designed.

I think the point is though, that non-EU immigration on a points based system allows us to take in those who have a skill which we need, and to have a job and a certain amount of ability to support themselves. This system should also exist for EU nationals too - why discriminate?

Yes there will always be high numbers of people, from everywhere, wanting to be here (that's the result of being a fairly successful and prosperous country), and there's absolutely nothing wrong in that. What we do need to control are the numbers of people choosing to come here with no prospect of a job, claiming benefits as soon as they arrive, not much prospect of getting a job which will pay a decent enough wage to support themselves because they don't speak very good English, and so live X amount to a room and take below minimum wage jobs, which pushes the wages down of British people who can, did and would do those jobs now if they could get hired to do so at a fair rate which will allow them to live and support the family they have here.

You say no one has proposed how to limit non-EU migration? I'd argue no one on the remain side has proposed how to limit EU migration (because they can't, even if they wanted to, they don't hold the power to)! The points based system will allow us to set our own targets based on our needs as a nation.

BenjaG

I consider the European Union a great achievement and want the UK to remain. I also would prefer to live in a world without borders, but I am aware that these ideas currently don’t have many followers. But I am confident that, even if the UK leaves the EU, migration will continue to make life in the UK ever more colourful and interesting http://counter-offensive.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/pressure-on-wages-from-migration.html

ElsieMonkey

chockydavid1983 wrote: »

Interesting question except we have no idea how the country would look now had we never joined

True, but we know what being in the EU is like now, and that's certainly something I wouldn't go head first into if we weren't already a part of it.

movilogo

givernment can't even control the non-EU immigration levels now (something not controlled by EU and solely the repsonsibility of the UK government) why do you think leaving the EU will help?

Govt. can control skilled non-EU immigrant numbers via point based system (tier-1 to 5 visa system).

The asylum seeker/refugees/criminals etc. are governed by overarching EU rule again!

So, yes, being out of EU will make fewer immigrants in the country as EU migrants will also come under point based category.

ElsieMonkey

silver145 wrote: »

:T
Finally someone with a reasonable point of view, my opinion is the same as yours, not happy with the current system so i am happy to see what comes out of it with a leave vote, be it better or worse. Never know until we try

:beer: Well thank you very much! *takes a bow*

ElsieMonkey

BenjaG wrote: »

I consider the European Union a great achievement and want the UK to remain. I also would prefer to live in a world without borders, but I am aware that these ideas currently don’t have many followers. But I am confident that, even if the UK leaves the EU, migration will continue to make life in the UK ever more colourful and interesting http://counter-offensive.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/pressure-on-wages-from-migration.html

What's the achievement? It's a club that charges a membership fee.

Plus, the Leave side are not saying there shouldn't be any immigration.

teddysmum

Cameron and Osborne want to stay in because they are no longer in office they can get a cushy job with the EU, just like some of their predecessors.

bigadaj

zolablue25 wrote: »

Surely, it is the job of the Government to represent the views of the people. If the people wish to leave the EU then it is the government's job to facilitate this and, only by holding a referendum will the government know for sure what the people's will is.

It is then the job of the government to lay out the possible risks for voting either way. If the people then decide that they are lying or simply wish to ignore the warnings then you can't turn around and blame the goevrnment for offering you the choice.

But political parties are elected based on manifestos that are sanitised and don't propose the more extreme options that may nevertheless be popular.

An obvious example is the death penalty, given a free vote or referendum it's quite likely this would be reintroduced.