The EU: IN or OUT?

EnglishMohican

atush wrote: »

Pretty sure Juncker said once we are out we cant come back or some such.

And you believe him? Why?

Juncker can speak for the now - not for the future which even he cannot see. In 5 years time the EU might not exist or it might be desperate to have the UK back as a contributing member and be willing to give a totally remarkable deal to get us back.

As I pretty much said that in the post that you commented on, I am sorry to be repetitive but you appear not to have read what was written.

teddysmum

atush wrote: »

Rubbish.

neither of them need the cushy job

Want and need are not the same thing. Those who have usually want more.


Kinnock wasn't poor, but he has his EU job.


Blair is a multimillionaire, but he's still raking in money for his 'services'.

teddysmum

According to surveys, even the Germans are disgusted by the situation Merkel has imposed on them. Apparently they want a new leader, which some papers have sensationalised into wanting another Hitler.

BananaRepublic

zolablue25 wrote: »

The real problem with leaving the EU is that we will still be stuck with our own incompetent MPs (from all parties) who will still manage to screw things up

The idea that we are better off with EU politicians than our own is barking. We have a long tradition of democracy, and MPs with independent thought. We elect our MPs, and if we dislike them, we get rid of them. You can't get rid of an EU commissioner, they are appointed, often because they did favours for important people, or it is their turn. As for competence, look at Greece. They willfully turned a blind eye to the accounting fraud of the Greek government. All in the name of a utopian dream. My worry is that the EU is about socialist pipe dreams, whereas we are known as pragmatists. We have not had a Napoleon or a Hitler for a long while, due to our political structures. And TTIP frightens me.

I see genuine concerns from business, but the EU facelessness scares me.

marleyboy

BananaRepublic

cashbackproblems wrote: »

OUT. No more immigrants and no more EU burdens, lets be free, make our own trade deals for our benfit and prosper. Being such a large consumer of everything gives us negotiating power

We need and will have immigrants. I am curious what deals other countries have with the EU, that tells us what to expect.

BananaRepublic

This is interesting:

http://www.cer.org.uk/insights/would-britain%E2%80%99s-trade-be-freer-outside-eu

Xiderpunk

I am voting out. Campaign 'fear and threaten' won't blackmail me otherwise. Lets take the assumption that all these threats come to pass following BREXIT, several years of economic turbulence is a small price to pay when you consider the alternative.

Freedom and democracy however is not something that comes cheap. Through-out history countless thousands have died for it. We have the opportunity now to remove ourselves peacefully.

An economy can and will adjust rapidly.. seems pretty cheap to me.

mrginge

ringo_24601 wrote: »

Now you see, no one has proposed how to limit non-EU migration, which exceeds EU migration into the country.

There's nothing to say we can't become a densely populated country, like many other countries, but we need to be planning for it and changing how our housing is designed.

We already have a way to limit non-EU migration. What we would like is for the same rules to be applicable to EU migration.

We could of course simply cut total migration in half immediately by stopping all non-eu migration. This is the brainless argument put forward by some. However this has two key failings.
1. It is highly discriminatory to the 80% or so of countries not in the EU and would seriously reduce our standing with them.
2. It does not resolve the issue that we have no certainty over future net migration. The result being that exactly the same number of EU nationals can walk into the country freely.

So that temporary solution just makes the overall issue worse. The only way to deal with a problem like this is to deal with it in its entirety, not by picking on the subset that are already discriminated against.

mrginge

Chickereeeee wrote: »

Ow, my toe hurts! I will cut my leg off. It may be better or worse never know until you try.....

Dont forget, if we leave we cannot come back (under the current advantageous terms)
If we stay, and we do not like soething in the future, we can still leave. The government can do it, with or without referendum.

Perhaps people dont like something in the present?

Putting decisions off because they are difficult, have some element of risk or will upset a few people is classic EU mentality.