Family trip booked before falling out

cyantist

Thanks for all the suggestions and opinions. It does really give me stuff to think about and just being able to get ideas from someone not directly involved is really useful.

About the hotel: I could ask my dad if he'd be happy to drive and stay in an airport hotel. He gets very stressed about driving anywhere new (even though he has a sat nav) but I think he'd do it if it meant we'd go away. I wouldn't lie about a reason for them not staying at mine though, I really don't like lying after all this and although it's a small lie it would be very hypocritical of me.

It's not necessarily solving the issue though if I go and just avoid my mom. Short of saying I want to do things with my dad and leave my mom on her own, then if I spend time with my dad I'll be unable to avoid my mom. As people have suggested I more need to try to find coping mechanisms if I am around her.

Kaye1: your mom sounds a lot worse than mine and I don't blame you for cutting contact. I do wonder why people stay with partners who are like this.

I know life is short, and while a lot of people use that as a reason to just forgive and forget it's just as much a good reasons to take care of yourself and remove yourself from people who upset you. That's what I want to do at the moment. My mom isn't a pure evil person, I know I make it sound like she is awful but she does have a lot of good qualities and I am 100% sure she doesn't sit there thinking "how can I upset DD today?" but like cte1111 she is tactless and upsets me so often and for example I'll tell her something that would really really upset me, and she'll go and do it even though she knew I'd be upset.

There are several things she has done to upset me. But apart from one time when she said something really nasty (then started crying and begging me to tell her why I was upset/what she'd done wrong, before flat out denying she said it even though several other people said they had heard her) it's nothing she has said. It's what she has done that is more the problem, and that is clear cut: either you have done something or you haven't. It's much less opinion based than just crossed words and maybe someone taking something the wrong way.

cjdavies: what is wrong with you!? And how much would you like to bet?

Peter333

pickledonionspaceraider wrote: »

The above theory would be great, if we were robots.

Human emotions do not always make sense and can be extremely intense. You cannot force yourself not to have them, emotions are wild, unreasonable and animalistic , they cannot be trained to ''not exist'' to fit into a reasoned box and are completely natural and do not always make sense

If something upsets you , then it is real, you shouldn't pretend it didn't happen or squash down your feelings as to avoid this BS theory of 'giving someone else control' as it is doing YOU more damage than good - you squash down your feelings and they eat away at you.

And the other person, the wrong doer? They have wronged you and you haven't batted an eyelid because you ''don't want to give them power'' but all you have actually done is prove you need some lessons in how to be more assertive and not let people walk all over you

Agree with this ^^^ 100% :T

One of the most annoying phrases I have ever heard, that seems to be a mantra of assertiveness courses, is 'no-one can make you feel inferior without your consent.'

What a load of BS. You show me a single person who has never been offended by something that someone has said, and I will show you the world's biggest liar. There's not a single person alive who hasn't been offended or upset by something someone has said at some time or another.

That ludicrous phrase is basically saying that if you are offended or upset by something someone has said, that it's YOUR problem, because of the way YOU took it, and the way YOU are handling it.

It's like in our local school now, when a child is being bullied, they are offered counselling to deal with it better. Stop the bullies from bullying; don't flippin' well try and teach people to 'handle it better' !!!!!!!

In addition, I get sick of people trivialising problems. Whether it's that you have a serious illness, or you are upset about something someone said to you; a worry is a worry and should not be trivialised.

Re; the OP; it's all well and good saying she needs to suck it up and deal with it, and she needs to grow up and she is childish etc etc; but the fact is that a bad or dysfunctional relationship with a parent can mess a person up emotionally and mentally for many years; some people never recover. And a bad relationship with a mother is very destructive, and some mothers can be very manipulative and controlling, and can make their adult offspring feel small and worthless, and like they are 10 years old again.

I have no suggestions OP, other than what others have suggested, that you maybe try and work through it for your father's sake; but I must say I do feel terribly sorry for you and I hope you find peace.

Bit baffled as to why your father stays though. If I felt, about my wife, the same as your dad feels about your mother; I would have run for the hills by now. Why does he stay?

jackomdj

I do think it is an age thing, and how people of my parents generation were brought up. My Dad is of the opinion, he made his bed so he must lie in it, although it would be much better for him if he was not with my mum.

Your Mum sounds very much like mine in many ways. She would not know how to say sorry, her view is always right, not great socially etc. Do you have any knowledge of aspergers or the autism spectrum? I am sure if my Mum was a child today she would be statemented, however when she was a child this was not done (and she would not contemplate seeing anyone now as she does not see anything wrong with her behaviour). If you don't know anything, or not much, look it up. If your mums traits match, although you won't be able to do anything it may help you understand her.

I know for me, knowing that she has this, although undiagnosed, makes me understand that the things she does and says are not her being vindictive, more that she does not understand that they are not appropriate behaviour.

Peter333

cjdavies wrote: »

I don't care how this sounds or comes out, if anyone refuses to talk to their parents that is fair enough. However I bet when they pass away you will be sniffing around for the inheritance.

Your one is a tough one, as it would be nice to spend some time your Dad , but then there is your Mum.

There's just no need for this at all.

dirty_magic

It's like in our local school now, when a child is being bullied, they are offered counselling to deal with it better. Stop the bullies from bullying; don't flippin' well try and teach people to 'handle it better' !!!!!!!

How do you stop bullying though? Some kids are cruel, they're not just going to stop because the teachers tell them to. It's also usually not just one person. It's gang mentality where kids see one person doing it and they copy them to fit in with the 'popular' crowd. It'll never be eradicated. Obviously they need to try to stop it, but it can only help to give the victim counselling too.

OP I'd go on the holiday and make amends with your mother for the sake of being civil for a week. It doesn't mean you have to like her or be close to her. You can avoid discussions with her as much as possible during the week and then go back to not seeing her at all after if you want to.

pigpen

dirty_magic wrote: »

How do you stop bullying though? Some kids are cruel, they're not just going to stop because the teachers tell them to. It's also usually not just one person. It's gang mentality where kids see one person doing it and they copy them to fit in with the 'popular' crowd. It'll never be eradicated. Obviously they need to try to stop it, but it can only help to give the victim counselling too

it's not 'gang mentality' it is one person being nasty, showing off to friends usually, who then gets away with it, even rewarded in some ways.. in ye olden days said bully would get punished.. even if it was just the victim giving them a slap.. bullies are now rewarded and victims punished if they dare retaliate.. totally wrong way round! My son at 7 was told by the LA anti-bullying person to 'be more like them so they leave you alone' ... needless to say i lost my $h!t.. why should my lovely sweet boy become a little turd to appease nasty little beasts?

There wouldnt be victims if the hateful children were stopped sharpish.



As for the OP.. if it was my mother I'd go on the holiday for my dads sake and because he wants me to and I wanted to and if she started she would get a flea in her ear.. she could drama all she liked but she would know exactly what she had said or done and why it was hurtful and mean. The longer it is allowed to continue the worse it will get.

I can and have cut the whole dads side of the family out of my life pretty much .. I dont even see my mothers side really.. and I don't miss them at all really.. we've not had a falling out we just have different lives and different priorities.

Peter333

pigpen wrote: »

it's not 'gang mentality' it is one person being nasty, showing off to friends usually, who then gets away with it, even rewarded in some ways.. in ye olden days said bully would get punished.. even if it was just the victim giving them a slap.. bullies are now rewarded and victims punished if they dare retaliate.. totally wrong way round! My son at 7 was told by the LA anti-bullying person to 'be more like them so they leave you alone' ... needless to say i lost my $h!t.. why should my lovely sweet boy become a little turd to appease nasty little beasts?

There wouldnt be victims if the hateful children were stopped sharpish.

Put so much better than I could ever put it! Well done pigpen :T

Not being funny, but I think anyone who thinks that the bullied child (or person,) should just suck it up, has never been bullied, and has never had a child that's been bullied. (And in some cases, they are bullies themselves.)

When a child is bullied; it destroys their childhood, it's ruins their education, and it destroys their self esteem. Some have even commit suicide because of extreme bullying, although I am sure some will say that there must have been other 'issues.'

Children and teens are emotionally fragile as it is, without having some little b

---

ruin their childhood with a bullying campaign.

And I agree Pigpen, that the victim is often made to feel like they're in the wrong, and they need to toughen up, and suck it up. Awful attitude. This victim blaming, only goes to make the bully think what they're doing is OK.

I know several nasty little bullies who were vile in school, and they are just the same now in the workplace. More often than not, their parents are the same, and they don't see their little poppets as being in the wrong at all.

They're usually the gobby gits at the school gate, the facebook warriors, and as I said; often bullies themselves.

cyantist

pickledonionspaceraider wrote: »

The above theory would be great, if we were robots.

Human emotions do not always make sense and can be extremely intense. You cannot force yourself not to have them, emotions are wild, unreasonable and animalistic , they cannot be trained to ''not exist'' to fit into a reasoned box and are completely natural and do not always make sense

If something upsets you , then it is real, you shouldn't pretend it didn't happen or squash down your feelings as to avoid this BS theory of 'giving someone else control' as it is doing YOU more damage than good - you squash down your feelings and they eat away at you.

And the other person, the wrong doer? They have wronged you and you haven't batted an eyelid because you ''don't want to give them power'' but all you have actually done is prove you need some lessons in how to be more assertive and not let people walk all over you

Peter333 wrote: »

Agree with this ^^^ 100% :T

One of the most annoying phrases I have ever heard, that seems to be a mantra of assertiveness courses, is 'no-one can make you feel inferior without your consent.'

What a load of BS. You show me a single person who has never been offended by something that someone has said, and I will show you the world's biggest liar. There's not a single person alive who hasn't been offended or upset by something someone has said at some time or another.

That ludicrous phrase is basically saying that if you are offended or upset by something someone has said, that it's YOUR problem, because of the way YOU took it, and the way YOU are handling it.

It's like in our local school now, when a child is being bullied, they are offered counselling to deal with it better. Stop the bullies from bullying; don't flippin' well try and teach people to 'handle it better' !!!!!!!

In addition, I get sick of people trivialising problems. Whether it's that you have a serious illness, or you are upset about something someone said to you; a worry is a worry and should not be trivialised.

Re; the OP; it's all well and good saying she needs to suck it up and deal with it, and she needs to grow up and she is childish etc etc; but the fact is that a bad or dysfunctional relationship with a parent can mess a person up emotionally and mentally for many years; some people never recover. And a bad relationship with a mother is very destructive, and some mothers can be very manipulative and controlling, and can make their adult offspring feel small and worthless, and like they are 10 years old again.

I have no suggestions OP, other than what others have suggested, that you maybe try and work through it for your father's sake; but I must say I do feel terribly sorry for you and I hope you find peace.

Bit baffled as to why your father stays though. If I felt, about my wife, the same as your dad feels about your mother; I would have run for the hills by now. Why does he stay?

Thank you both. I get very emotional about a lot of things but I don't think I'd want to change that completely just so I don't get upset by people who are mean to me.

Why he stays: he feels like he has put up with it for so long, and he does love her. Also my mom has a lot of good qualities and he sees this. When my nan (her MIL) was seriously ill she did so much for her, way more than most people would have considering my nan was never very nice to her. She will do a lot to help you out if you need it (and often even if you don't), it's just she doesn't seem to have any filter on what she should/shouldn't say or do, no real conscience, no sense of personal guilt or responsibility and no empathy/consideration of others feelings.

jackomdj wrote: »

I do think it is an age thing, and how people of my parents generation were brought up. My Dad is of the opinion, he made his bed so he must lie in it, although it would be much better for him if he was not with my mum.

Your Mum sounds very much like mine in many ways. She would not know how to say sorry, her view is always right, not great socially etc. Do you have any knowledge of aspergers or the autism spectrum? I am sure if my Mum was a child today she would be statemented, however when she was a child this was not done (and she would not contemplate seeing anyone now as she does not see anything wrong with her behaviour). If you don't know anything, or not much, look it up. If your mums traits match, although you won't be able to do anything it may help you understand her.

I know for me, knowing that she has this, although undiagnosed, makes me understand that the things she does and says are not her being vindictive, more that she does not understand that they are not appropriate behaviour.

Actually DH has said this for a while and I never considered it until he mentioned it. But there are a lot of things that make sense and it would explain certain things she does. I'm not sure if that helps me though, because it would explain why she does some things and I'd maybe be able to understand she can't help it. But at the same time it doesn't mean I'll get less upset by it, just because I know that she doesn't understand what she is doing is inappropriate.

burnoutbabe

i would cancel the holiday and get the 80% back - a day out with parents would be okay to "suck up and just attend for your dads sake" but 5 whole days? disaster really.

Or just fly out and stay for one night?

Or alternativly, go and just only spend the birthday day together? or maybe just evening meals, do your own thing each day.

thorsoak

cyantist wrote: »

I do want to go, my dad is one of the most important people in my life.

Without going into details, she did something back in December which hurt me immensely, but it was more the constant lies that followed that was the worst. However for the sake of my Dad, and because she said she was sorry I tried to try to patch things up and things were a bit better. I feel she has thrown that back in my face with what she did afterwards and my Dad understands this.



When I say I go into floods of tears, I find it quite harsh for you to say I sound like a child. Because of her, most days I actually want to die and every day is a struggle for me. I am going to counselling to come to terms with everything but it's not easy for me.

Every time I act the adult, she turns around and does something even more hurtful. Mentally I'm not sure I can cope with letting her do that to me again.



It will just be my parents, husband and me.

But this trip is not all about you - it should be all about your dad.

Grow up!