Here we can all be heard for a little while. Part 3

Gingernutty

This tends to be me a lot of the time.....

"See how calm she is"

https://youtu.be/FBgLytbB-uE

Pyxis

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

calleyw

Evening all,

Oh ((((pyxis)))) hope you are feeling better soon.

Well some good news after nearly 7 months I have started to x-stitch again. The day has flown by. Can't believe that I stopped. Its so relaxing and all the time I have spent watching stuff on netflix I could have been stitching.

Will try and do some everyday.

I wish everyone good night and hope you get some sleep.

Night night

Yours

Calley

elsien

Algarve. Potentially with a jaunt over to Seville. Gitdog is in kennels as I'm not sure he's ready to be inflicted on a dog sitter as yet. Not without danger money.

faerielight

Thanks WW..I'm with you about being told the rules! Waves.. you are right, abusive dysfunctional parents trash your boundaries, and don't teach you how to set boundaries to protect yourself. I tend to just say the contents of my head.. as you all probably know by now!! It's going to be good for me to learn all the skills I never got taught as a child, and try and unlearn the dysfunctional ones.

Waves_and_Smiles

Brutally honest penguin for Faerie about boundaries. Talks about sex and manipulation among other things.-

I wanted to give you an example of how few boundaries I once had to show you that you aren't alone, you probably aren't as chaotic as I once was and that it is possible to learn them. My mother failed to teach me any boundaries at all, sexually and emotionally. My dad did teach me some but because he died when I was 13 it didn't have enough of an impact on me as a growing child and my mother's influence was very strong, so much of my behaviour was inappropriate and quite manipulative because I didn't know not to do it or that there were any alternatives. I became what I saw my mother doing which was existing almost totally without boundaries of any kind. There were many different ways this affected me but two major ways that really messed my life up.

Most obviously, I had sex with anyone. I would meet a person, talk for a while and sleep with them. It meant nothing to me, I didn't enjoy it, I felt nothing at all at the time. My body would literally numb out so I didn't feel touch. It just felt like something you do after people have been kind to you, someone would be having sex with me, I would be planning tomorrow's shopping list. I had no regard for my body at all, it was a tool to try to keep people with me, I had no self-respect. I had to learn that sex was something valuable and that my body was valuable, I had never been taught that after years of sexual abuse by mother.

I also slept with anyone who wanted me to as a way to try stop them going away, I was taught I was bad and would be hit if I said no as a child so I never refused. I can't even remember the names of all of the people or how many I had sex with, that is how little emotional investment I had. I had no sexual boundaries and no respect for my body and had to work on how to develop that. I now find this very embarrassing and can't quite believe I behaved that way which shows I now have boundaries, but at the time I didn't think anything of it. No one had taught me to value my body as a child or that I could say no.

Another way I had no boundaries was when meeting new people. I would within hours, throw my entire life story on them, all the abuse, my dad's death, my mental health. I would blurt it all out immediately and even exaggerate it for maximum impact. I did this because it was a way of making myself a victim and I was therefore saying to the other person I have been badly hurt, don't hurt me again. It was a defensive reaction that on the one hand told people not to hurt me and on the other kept them at arms length because understandably people recoiled.

I also felt I had no reason for anyone to ever want to stay with me unless it was through pity (or sex). I felt like I, as a person had nothing to offer so I used my past as a way of saying look what I have been through, you can't leave me. I tried to guilt-trip people into staying with me. It took me a long time to realise I didn't have to throw my past at someone to keep them with me, and that I had a choice not to tell them at all. I had to learn that people might actually like me for being the person I am right now and I did have qualities to offer. My self-esteem was so low I felt that manipulating people through pity and exaggeration (or sometimes outright lies) was the only way to stop them going away which was my biggest fear and I needed to realise that wasn't fair to other people or to myself.

There were other boundary problems too like getting hideously drunk and making a fool of myself several times a week and taking any drugs I could get my hands on. I just had no idea when I should say no and most of the time I didn't try to find out. I had no learned instinct saying don't do that and little sense of danger. With everything together as you can imagine my life was total chaos for a while. I was also putting myself in a lot of physical and emotional danger and was very open to further abuse. I thought I was in control at the time when really due to lack of boundaries, I was permanently at risk.

Now I am quite good at boundaries, not perfect but quite good. It isn't automatic for me, I have to think about what is appropriate but I can do it well most of the time. The trick is looking at why you find boundaries hard, what happens when you break them and finding safe alternatives to get your needs met. Also, observing other people's boundaries helps a lot. It might sound silly but if you have doubts ask the workers at the centre about what is appropriate behaviour. I learnt so much from asking therapists about how I should behave in various situations and also by sitting back and watching how others approached things. You are always welcome to ask here if you wish. I used to roleplay situations with my case workers to teach me how to act appropriately and how to say no. Don't be embarrassed about asking for guidance, lack of boundaries is a major feature of BPD and they will be very aware of that.

People like us may not have natural boundaries but I promise you it is possible to learn how to use them as adults and feel far better for doing so, plus you will develop far more rewarding and equal relationships. Don't beat yourself up if you get it wrong sometimes, this is brand new to you. Like anything else we need to learn we make mistakes along the way before it sinks in. Keep working at it, it's worth it. Have a hug.

End penguin. Eeeek, that was honest, please don't hate me for it everyone! I hope that helps you feel less alone Faerie, now my heart is on the table. I need to lie down and eat chocolate! :rotfl:

Pyxis

Actually, WaS, I can relate to a lot of that.

Having had only one parent from puberty onwards, and that parent absent for most of the time, somewhat abusing and very disparaging the rest of the time, and not having a lot of boundaries themselves, I pretty much had to bring myself up.

I remember thinking, as a very much older adult, that I had never been taught how to introduce people to each other, so I must have come across as very rude a lot of the time.
I, too, confused sex with genuine affection, which of course, led to many feelings of abandonment.
And yes, the constant outpourings of my life history, for exactly the reasons you state. That took me years and years and years to control, to learn that that really isn't what people want to keep hearing!
I've probably gone to opposite extremes now, and say very little for a long time.

That's the nice thing about this thread. It's safe. You can say as much or as little as you feel able to, and people on here aren't burdened by it, in the same way as a face-to-face conversation might be burdening.



Am still feeling rough. (Not quite as bad as yesterday, though). So the house won't get its pre-holiday clean as I still have to make the final clothes decision and pack them. Luckily, everything else is always packed ready, and I sorted out all the paperwork, money and stuff last week. I had wanted to pop out to the shops, but that's not possible now.
If it doesn't get worse than this, I'll be ok, though under par.

calleyw

Afternoon campers,

Aww (((((WaS))))), (((((Pyxis))))), (((((WW))))), (((((Faerie)))))

There are still plenty of hugs and squishes and handshakes for all.

It breaks my heart to think of how you have been treated and how anyone could be that unloving and callous to their children. Give yourselves a break. We have all done things that we are not proud of. So please don't beat yourself up. You have no reason to.

You are all wonderful, loving, caring people. Who I am honored to call my friends.

You are so much more than your MH/Physical conditions.

WaS I find it very interesting if that is the correct word reading about your MH conditions. It helps bring a better and clearer understanding to myself. And learn not to take everything at face value.

Everyone take care. i will be in the duvet fort if anyone wants hugs, squishes and handshakes. And guess what they are free and for nothing :rotfl:

Yours

Calley

Lambyr

Hello.

WaS, I'm so sorry to read your penguin. I can't offer anything but kind wishes, and my admiration that you've persevered to come through it.

In my world, I had a lovely day yesterday. E came over. Since it was sloshing it down most of the day, we sat on the sofa with mum watching rugby, the FA Cup Final and then a movie. I made us all dinner. We had a couple of drinks. Was a really nice day.

It felt like a family thing to me. That E belonged. So I decided to stop being a wimp about it and tell my mum about E and me.

I'll PENGUIN the rest of this, as it does get a bit weird and there'll be some sex-related talk but for those who don't want to read this stuff, it did go better than I expected I also apologise for the length. There's really no reason for me to say all this, except maybe just a bit of joy that for all my fears about doing it, it actually wasn't bad and maybe if someone ever found this, maybe it might provide a bit of support to them? I dunno.

PENGUIN

E left this morning at about midday. I told her before she left what I was gonna do and she did ask if I wanted her to stay for it but I figured it's best I do this on my own.

Made mum a sandwich and suggested we finish off the Baileys. Then told her I needed to talk to her.

I'm not quite sure what I'd actually planned in my head, but I ended up just blurting out that I was bisexual. Mum didn't really understand this, so I simplified it that I'm attracted to men and women, but I lean more towards women.

A few awkward moments passed before, thankfully, mum responded with "Well we do have softer skin"

She went on to say that she wasn't going to pretend to understand it but both her and my father (who passed almost twenty years ago) had suspected I wasn't straight. She said that I was beautiful (aww!) and they'd both noticed I'd never really shown much interest in boys when I was growing up, when they both expected me to be fighting them off. I later learned that dad had said that if it turned out that I was gay it wasn't a big deal and had even gone as far as to ask advice from a counsellor on what to do if I did turn out to be gay. Wish he was still alive for me to thank him for that one because I have no doubt that bit of pre-planning has helped enormously today.

She did ask whether I was sure it wasn't just a phase because I'm lonely, and I told her that I've known for almost fifteen years but only recently accepted it for myself, and how I'd been afraid that she'd be ashamed of me, that I would be an embarrassment to her and that I'd tried to be straight and couldn't do it. Mum said she would never be ashamed of me.

Obviously by this point she's put two and two together and asks me whether this has anything to do with E's more frequent visits. I said it was. She asked how long it'd had been going on and I told her, although I did leave out the fact that my first sexual experiences were with E all those years ago, and then she asked whether I was happy. And I told her that I was, very happy. I told her that E is my best friend, that her and her family would always be there for me and that I love her.

The next bit might seem a bit odd to most but I can sorta explain it. My mum previously has told me that her parents never spoke of sex, and she went to a religious private school which also never gave a proper sex education beyond a "this is how you get pregnant" type of thing. This meant that mum's first sexual experiences were, by her own admission, traumatic.

Mum and dad therefore had agreed at some point that sex was not to be a taboo subject in our house, that if I had questions they would be answered and that when I was growing up they would educate me themselves. Obviously, as a thirteen year old hearing my mum talk about my bits was mortifying but looking back I can appreciate what they were aiming to do... and when they discovered I had acquired a vibrator when I was a teenager, the only question I got was where I'd got it from and not "What the hell do you think you're doing?!".

Before I actually became sexually active with men, I bought a pack of condoms because I didn't trust men to carry them and mum found them one day cleaning my room, praised me for taking the initiative and reminded me they weren't a guarantee of safety.

Despite all of this openness though my mum is rather naive about some things. I am now the one who gets asked questions, generally when she hears a term she's unfamiliar with and asks me what it means. I think she's probably gathered that with sex education at home, school and admittedly via the Internet, I'm a little more knowledgeable than she is in things beyond the basics. So it shouldn't have been a surprise when she suddenly asked about what's involved when we have sex.

I hadn't really planned to deal with those questions, but I got the impression that it wasn't so much a question about the mechanics and more an enquiry as to whether I was comfortable because I think mum's own experiences mean that my comfort with sex is important. I think because she doesn't understand it, maybe she's a little concerned that I might be doing something I'm not comfortable with because it's the done thing? Admittedly with reluctance, I gave her an outline, and tried to emphasise the bits I think would put mum's mind at rest, such as it being very tactile.

I think that helped. I think that I could answer honestly and with confidence helps her to accept that I'm not being naive, I know what I'm doing and what I want and that I am happy.

Anyhoo, after all of this she said that I don't need to worry about anything. Although she doesn't fully understand how I can want a relationship with a woman, if I'm happy then she's happy. She also said that she's got no issues with E and I continuing as we are, with her coming over, spending two nights a week but she did tell me that she's only comfortable with because it's E, which I get. I imagine she doesn't want me to start bringing strange women home but then she also wouldn't let a boyfriend stay over until she'd met them and everything so nothing odd there.

She also said that it's not the life she envisioned for me but she also didn't envision me being her full-time carer so she's okay with her ideal life for me not working out because it's my life, and she's proud of me and the decisions I've made.

I had to ask about the rest of the family because of their beliefs, mum just said it's none of their business so they don't need to know. So that's a relief.

END PENGUIN

And yes, that's about it. I'm out to my mum. It was awkward, cringeworthy at times but not nearly as destructive as I feared it could be. In fact, being out about it might even make us a bit closer because I no longer have to hide who I am.

However, I have no doubt I am now going to have to prepare for a slew of questions on everything gay, as if I'm some sort of authority on the subject. I'm not. I'm just a girl in love with another girl... but I'm sure she will expect me to know everything!

Pyxis

Lambyr, I'm crying again! Good cry!

Especially when you wrote about what your father had said. (Here I go again!)

Toldja! Toldja! Told you that mums were canny creatures! :rotfl:

But well done that girl! :T :T :T

(((((((((((((((Lambyr)))))))))))))))))



Hahahahahahaha! about the forthcoming inquisitions! Prepare to squirm! :rotfl:



And I wonder how long it'll be before she asks you when's the wedding! :rotfl: Better not let her look in any hat shops! :rotfl:


This calls for a celebration!.........