If we vote for Brexit what happens

N1AK

michaels wrote: »

If there were a trade off between democracy and GDP how much would people be willing to pay to have a directly elected govt that we could vote out if they became too venal and corrupt with an unaudited budget year on year or introduced unreasonable taxes such as the community charge?

We don't have a directly elected government, a directly elected leader, or an elected head of state. Strange how the people claiming this is all about democracy don't care about having a monarch we have no mechanism for replacing but care massively about the EU which we can choose to leave at any time.

If isolation and independence is as great as you imagine then why stop at leaving the EU so we can all drive cars built in this country, why not cut off American companies like Google/Apple so we can use home-grown tech. It seems more than a little inconsistent that the leave campaign wants to claim leaving will let us cultivate more international trade, while at the same time claiming that less international trade with Europe is a benefit.

Generali

michaels wrote: »

Would be have to import cheaper wheat and other food from the US and South America rather than more expensive EU stuff?

Would we be able to make our own choice on whether GM allows for more farming output with less harmful pesticides?

You realise that these two desires are mutually exclusive, right?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-gmo-labeling-idUSKCN0PX17920150723

The U.S. House of Representatives on Thursday passed a hotly debated measure that blocks any mandatory labeling of foods made with genetically engineered crops, including pre-empting a state law set to take effect next year in Vermont.

http://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2016-02-19/senate-bill-would-block-mandatory-labeling-of-gmos

Under US food labeling rules you are not allowed to know whether what you eat is a GMO or not.

A Senate committee is moving forward on legislation that would prevent states from requiring labels on genetically modified foods

The US allows use of pesticides which are not allowed in Europe and what they feed and do to animals is illegal in the EU too (look up the hormones that are allowed in US meat for example).

You should read up a bit on the US food market. Yes the food is cheaper but it is crap, sometimes literally.

http://time.com/money/4022943/ground-beef-safety-burgers/

The researchers purchased 300 packages of ground beef at stores around the country. In total, they examined 458 pounds of beef, and in every case they found bacteria that indicated fecal contamination—which sounds extremely gross, and can cause blood and urinary tract infections. Roughly 1 in 5 beef packages contained another bacteria known to cause 1 million cases of food poisoning per year.

N1AK

crux wrote: »

With great respect to your view - a valid one at that - we would not be having a referendum vote if the EU did not have free movement of people.

This is a very fair point, and I'm glad you emphasised it. Whatever it is that motivates the individuals here on this issue it is very clear that immigration is the issue that led to the referendum being called.

N1AK

Generali wrote: »

You should read up a bit on the US food market. Yes the food is cheaper but it is crap, sometimes literally.

But Generalim I can here people cry, didn't you know that the EU did something that I, as someone uninformed about the detail and willing to jump to unfounded conclusions, found ridiculous about claims water helped with dehydration so we should throw the whole thing out and enjoy some faeces filled steroid freedom burgers!

kabayiri

N1AK wrote: »

This is a very fair point, and I'm glad you emphasised it. Whatever it is that motivates the individuals here on this issue it is very clear that immigration is the issue that led to the referendum being called.

I'd agree. The question is how many of the voting base have been affected in some way by immigration (and are concerned) compared to the numbers who perceive there is a problem with immigration (when they don't actually have any experience).

There aren't hordes of migrants trying to price me or my family out of housing where I live.

My old uni mate who lives in Lincoln says the place has changed completely, due to migration.

I can't tell him his concerns are not valid, can I?

Generali

N1AK wrote: »

But Generalim I can here people cry, didn't you know that the EU did something that I, as someone uninformed about the detail and willing to jump to unfounded conclusions, found ridiculous about claims water helped with dehydration so we should throw the whole thing out and enjoy some faeces filled steroid freedom burgers!

Haha.

Seriously N1AK, you should take a little time to read up on US food, it's gross.

Marion Nestle is a good starting point. She's an interesting woman.

mrginge

crux wrote: »

With great respect to your view - a valid one at that - we would not be having a referendum vote if the EU did not have free movement of people.

Immigration may be the catalyst for the referendum, but the underlying issue around immigration is a lack of sovereign control.

Nick_C

N1AK wrote: »

Strange how the people claiming this is all about democracy don't care about having a monarch we have no mechanism for replacing but care massively about the EU which we can choose to leave at any time.

... why not cut off American companies like Google/Apple so we can use home-grown tech. It seems more than a little inconsistent that the leave campaign wants to claim leaving will let us cultivate more international trade, while at the same time claiming that less international trade with Europe is a benefit.

We are not having a referendum on who our Head of State should be, so its pointless to mix the Republican argument with the case for Independence.

Those of us who want to leave the EU are very happy to carry on trading with the EU.

We don't have to accept America imposing their laws on us in order to trade with them, or any of the other 167 nations that are not EU member states.

Generali

Nick_C wrote: »

We are not having a referendum on who our Head of State should be, so its pointless to mix the Republican argument with the case for Independence.

Those of us who want to leave the EU are very happy to carry on trading with the EU.

We don't have to accept America imposing their laws on us in order to trade with them, or any of the other 167 nations that are not EU member states.

Well you kinda do.

If you're selling beer to the US then you need to sell it in ounces and pints whereas if you sell it to Australia you need to sell it in mls.

Those laws are both imposed on you, like it or not.

It may be a trite example but the great big fat benefit of the EU is that standards are, erm....., standardised. The UK doesn't get to set them all but ask a business whether they'd rather deal with 167 standards or 1 and I am pretty confident of the answer.

crux

mrginge wrote: »

Immigration may be the catalyst for the referendum, but the underlying issue around immigration is a lack of sovereign control.

I would slightly disagree and call it lack of political will - ultimately the vote we are having proves we do maintain sovereign control - but I admit it's all a matter of your view point.

Bottom line for me - this question will recur and there may well be a time when it's right to leave the EU - can't see that the time is here and now.