Debate House Prices
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If we vote for Brexit what happens
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ThinkingOutLoud wrote: »So with inflation above 2% - wine is almost on a par with the average.
Yawn.
That was 3% to March 2017. You need to add another 8p for duty plus 1.6p for the VAT on the duty.
(£0.16 + £0.08 + £0.016)/ £5.40 = 4.7% increase since March 2016.
Nearly 2.5x inflation.0 -
From the trade itself, a few days ago:
http://www.talkingretail.com/category-news/industrynews/brexit-high-duty-rates-blamed-sharp-rise-wine-prices/Average wine prices remained steady at about £5.40 a bottle during 2015 and 2016, but there has been a sharp upturn since the turn of the year, reaching £5.56 in the last three months.
Firstly that - from retailers themselves - clearly says the total increase so far has been 16p on an average bottle AND secondly if you can be bothered to read on that that increase INCLUDES all UK taxes.
Nice report whosit, but that is NOT from the links I posted, is it? You had to hunt for it. And again, 3% INCLUDING TAXES - and since the duty/VAT element was 12p as shown BEFORE your 16p total, the rise after tax is ? ? ? ?
Go on?
Yes, 4p - and I said 3. Well slap my wrists!
So
was untrue. It took a while but we got there.However, the increase in the price of wine to date is predominantly down to exchange rates.
Advisory: It's not the best of ideas to try and tell a French person about wine unless you are certain of your facts.0 -
Yes but the tax is not inflation - it is your current government and all previous of all colours policy to routinely lift tax on booze.That was 3% to March 2017. You need to add another 8p for duty plus 1.6p for the VAT on the duty.
(£0.16 + £0.08 + £0.016)/ £5.40 = 4.7% increase since March 2016.
Nearly 2.5x inflation.
"The total annual cost to society of alcohol-related harm is estimated to be £21bn. The NHS incurs £3.5bn a year in costs related to alcohol."
So tough luck. But the best wine you can. Sip don't glug is my best advice. Leave a few minutes between sips and you will be amazed at the depth of flavours in a good wine. Far beat necking it.I am just thinking out loud - nothing I say should be relied upon!
I do however reserve the right to be correct by accident.0 -
Yah_Boo_Sux wrote: »From the trade itself, a few days ago:
http://www.talkingretail.com/category-news/industrynews/brexit-high-duty-rates-blamed-sharp-rise-wine-prices/
Firstly that - from retailers themselves - clearly says the total increase so far has been 16p on an average bottle AND secondly if you can be bothered to read on that that increase INCLUDES all UK taxes.
Talking retail are basing their narrative on the WSTA report which I've linked to.
Yes, 16p (3%) is on the average bottle and yes, I understand the price of an average bottle includes taxes. Therefore would you agree that the 3% applies to the whole bottle and not just the wine component?Yah_Boo_Sux wrote: »Nice report whosit, but that is NOT from the links I posted, is it? You had to hunt for it. And again, 3% INCLUDING TAXES - and since the duty/VAT element was 12p as shown BEFORE your 16p total, the rise after tax is ? ? ? ?
So was untrue. It took a while but we got there.
The links you posted are reporting the information from the WSTA. Sometimes it's better to find the source data.Yah_Boo_Sux wrote: »AGAIN - it very clearly says "3% increase in wine prices". IT DOES NOT SAY "a 3% increase on a bottle of wine". So half an hour gone and still no proof of your mistaken assumptions yet, but I'm not impatient. I can wait ........ for proof.
You've not taken being proved wrong with very good grace.0 -
*Yawn*Talking retail are basing their narrative on the WSTA report which I've linked to.
Yes, 16p (3%) is on the average bottle and yes, I understand the price of an average bottle includes taxes. Therefore would you agree that the 3% applies to the whole bottle and not just the wine component?
The links you posted are reporting the information from the WSTA. Sometimes it's better to find the source data.
You've not taken being proved wrong with very good grace.
You are the one proven wrong, not me. Where is your good grace?
You said
That was wrong. Proven beyond doubt above. End of.Originally Posted by wotsthat
However, the increase in the price of wine to date is predominantly down to exchange rates.0 -
Yah_Boo_Sux wrote: »*Yawn*
You are the one proven wrong, not me. Where is your good grace?
You said "Originally Posted by wotsthat
However, the increase in the price of wine to date is predominantly down to exchange rates."
That was wrong. Proven beyond doubt above. End of.
Yes indeed.
Exchange rate increase 4p.
Tax increase 12p.
Pretty conclusive from here.
And looking like more "Project Fear" type propagandist nonsense when explained clearly like that.
Why must media here always be sensationalist and so often misleading too?0 -
A_Pict_In_A_Past_Life wrote: »Why must media here always be sensationalist and so often misleading too?
That's a great question....
“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
A_Pict_In_A_Past_Life wrote: »Yes indeed.
Exchange rate increase 4p.
Tax increase 12p.
Pretty conclusive from here.
And looking like more "Project Fear" type propagandist nonsense when explained clearly like that.
Why must media here always be sensationalist and so often misleading too?
What you've missed is that the WSTA report is quite clearly saying that the 16p increase is mainly down to an 11% decline in Sterling.
The tax change is a red herring because the price survey data was undertaken before the full impact of it fed through to retail prices.
It's not project fear, sensation or misleading - just maths and basic logic.0 -
Yah_Boo_Sux wrote: »*Yawn*
You are the one proven wrong, not me. Where is your good grace?
Are you still saying the consumer is paying 3% extra on a bottle of wine or just the wine component? Or have you got bored of repeating your inaccuracy?Yah_Boo_Sux wrote: »You said That was wrong. Proven beyond doubt above. End of.
I've explained this using the power of maths and being able to interpret pretty simple data. Sorry you didn't understand.0 -
ThinkingOutLoud wrote: »Yes but the tax is not inflation - it is your current government and all previous of all colours policy to routinely lift tax on booze.
If duty increases on wine then assuming it's not absorbed by retailers it'll turn up in inflation figures.ThinkingOutLoud wrote: »"The total annual cost to society of alcohol-related harm is estimated to be £21bn. The NHS incurs £3.5bn a year in costs related to alcohol."
So tough luck. But the best wine you can. Sip don't glug is my best advice. Leave a few minutes between sips and you will be amazed at the depth of flavours in a good wine. Far beat necking it.
I suppose I should be grateful people who voted for Brexit are so worried about my health.0
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