If we vote for Brexit what happens

TrickyTree83

mwpt wrote: »

Exactly. The posters on here clearly don't agree on what the UK would look like or what deal we would pursue after a leave vote. There is no plan to vote for because the leave campaign have not proposed one. The reason they have not proposed one is obvious: they know it will split their vote when voters realise they won't be getting what they think they are voting for.

So that is why the leave campaign has to operate by simply banging on about theoretical stuff and calling the remain campaign fear mongers. They have no other alternative, they have no positive plan to show anyone. They made some fickle attempt to show a plan yesterday but it was basically much the same and amounts to vague hand waving of "control immigration, take back power".

The irony of this.

You know if you're voting for Remain you're just voting for a "less uncertain" option. There are plenty of risks associated with staying in the EU.

That's the same as saying the Conservatives will tear up all the workers rights after a vote to leave like the Remain campaign continually tells us will happen. They've had plenty of chances to reduce workers rights to the minimum EU standard and they haven't done so. Not to mention that the leave campaign isn't the government.

If the majority of the Conservative party supports Remain why would they u-turn and remove the workers rights they are fighting for by advocating for Remain (so they keep telling us)? Where's the logic?

You want the leave campaign, which is not a political party, which does not have a manifesto to produce a plan that it can never implement?

If you wanted a plan you should ask David Cameron, he's clearly called the vote without a plan for both options to force a bias towards remaining. You're being played by Dave if you think it's up to the leave campaign to give you a roadmap on how leave is going to work. After the vote, it's up to Dave!

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

the plan is to regain democratic control
what do you find so difficult to understand about that?

No. It starts and ends with immigration.

mwpt

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The irony of this.

You know if you're voting for Remain you're just voting for a "less uncertain" option. There are plenty of risks associated with staying in the EU.

That's the same as saying the Conservatives will tear up all the workers rights after a vote to leave like the Remain campaign continually tells us will happen. They've had plenty of chances to reduce workers rights to the minimum EU standard and they haven't done so. Not to mention that the leave campaign isn't the government.

If the majority of the Conservative party supports Remain why would they u-turn and remove the workers rights they are fighting for by advocating for Remain (so they keep telling us)? Where's the logic?

You want the leave campaign, which is not a political party, which does not have a manifesto to produce a plan that it can never implement?

If you wanted a plan you should ask David Cameron, he's clearly called the vote without a plan for both options to force a bias towards remaining. You're being played by Dave if you think it's up to the leave campaign to give you a roadmap on how leave is going to work. After the vote, it's up to Dave!

One giant straw man argument. I don't care about Dave or fear mongering about the Tory party or anything else. Your post represents exactly what I'm saying, waffle on to frame the remain vote as scare mongers, because you have nothing else, you cannot tell me what the leave voters are voting for, what our country should look like in two years time. You're all split on what you want. The referendum is flawed. And no, again, I don't care about Dave and who is to blame, I care that the referendum is BS.

Conrad

gfplux wrote: »

Interesting. Investors do not like uncertainty.
We are presently in a period of VERY HIGH uncertainty, after the referendum if we Brexit there will be a period, 2 years perhaps as specified by the Treaty, when there will be HIGH uncertainty.

It does not matter which side of the Brexit argument anyone is surely that can be agreed.

The last thing the precarious EU needs is uncertainty, after all youth unemployment is super high in several nations. As such and given we're already completely aligned with EU trading regulations, you will find a quick settlement / intention will be reached by all.


Some people are easily spooked, hold your nerve, all will be well. Notice investment has gone up in the last 24 months even though the referendum was pencilled in - follow the money.


The casino stock market full of thousands of traders that are able to exploit rumour and guess work will of course mean stock market volatility at the moment.


If we remain there are considerable risks, please bare this in mind. The Italian Banking system could collapse or need bailing out, Greece, Spain and Portugal are not out of the woods, the Turks hold a massive whip hand in terms of threatening to open flood gates if they don't get billions from us / VISA concessions




This comes down to fear of the unknown, those with imagination and confidence are happy to go forwards with independance

Conrad

mwpt wrote: »

you cannot tell me what the leave voters are voting for, what our country should look like in two years time.

You have chosen to ignore what leave are voting for, you prefer being ignorant of the aims because this suits your mentality whereas other people prefer availing themselves properly of both arguments before coming to a decision.


Do not blame your self inflicted ignorance on others.


Imagine being satisfied with a slew of Treasury forecasts all that set out only to consider the downside effects, and specifically did not look at the upside. This slew of studies is what allows Osborne to claim today there will be a £30bn black hole - as the average finding of those negative only studies of course arrives at this conclusion. They calibrated their most negative study to show a 6% GDP decline as this study significantly skews the average


I'd be ashamed of myself for being so easily hoodwinked

buglawton

gfplux wrote: »

Where I sit on the other side of the Chanel, I see a Britain struggling economically and with very poor infrastructure, isn't that the reason you want to leave the EU?

So after 40 odd years in the EU, "Britain struggling economically and with very poor infrastructure"?

Didn't help much then did it?

Conrad

buglawton wrote: »

So after 40 odd years in the EU, "Britain struggling economically and with very poor infrastructure"?

Didn't help much then did it?

I wish someone would tell all those migrants to stop trying get into down at heal Britain from non struggling France

Generali

Conrad wrote: »

The last thing the precarious EU needs is uncertainty, after all youth unemployment is super high in several nations. As such and given we're already completely aligned with EU trading regulations, you will find a quick settlement / intention will be reached by all.


Some people are easily spooked, hold your nerve, all will be well. Notice investment has gone up in the last 24 months even though the referendum was pencilled in - follow the money.


The casino stock market full of thousands of traders that are able to exploit rumour and guess work will of course mean stock market volatility at the moment.


If we remain there are considerable risks, please bare this in mind. The Italian Banking system could collapse or need bailing out, Greece, Spain and Portugal are not out of the woods, the Turks hold a massive whip hand in terms of threatening to open flood gates if they don't get billions from us / VISA concessions




This comes down to fear of the unknown, those with imagination and confidence are happy to go forwards with independance

:rotfl:And removing yourself from the world's biggest economy is going to isolate you from all this :rotfl:

This entire campaign, on both sides, has slipped into the ridiculous. You must realise that by leaving the EU you remain 21 miles from Calais, right? You don't suddenly become a part of the Commonwealth, most of which hates you, or the US, most of which pities you.

The current head of India reckons you lot should pay compensation to India for what our parents did:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/24/indian-prime-minister-modi-endorses-britain-paying-damages-for-colonial-rule

Australia has spent the last 50 years trying to deal with the fallout of being part of the Empire. You'll get no favours from the Indians or the Aussies. You could try Kenya I suppose but the Mau Mau hunts probably didn't win you many friends.

To be fair, most of what the Remain campaign has come out with is as much crap.

Britain is tied to Europe by geography and history and I can't see how voting to leave the EU is going to do anything other than leave you with the bits you don't like while adding expensive complications.

TrickyTree83

mwpt wrote: »

One giant straw man argument. I don't care about Dave or fear mongering about the Tory party or anything else. Your post represents exactly what I'm saying, waffle on to frame the remain vote as scare mongers, because you have nothing else, you cannot tell me what the leave voters are voting for, what our country should look like in two years time. You're all split on what you want. The referendum is flawed. And no, again, I don't care about Dave and who is to blame, I care that the referendum is BS.

I've told you repeatedly what I believe the leave vote is. I'll repeat myself again.

A vote to leave is a vote of no confidence in the EU as it currently stands. Dave has engineered it so a vote to leave cannot be anything other than a vote of no confidence. You appear to want a campaign like a General Election, it's a totally different beast.

I've also told you repeatedly that you cannot expect sides of an argument in a referendum to propose a manifesto they would have no mandate to implement after a leave vote. Where is your logic?

There will be some of us who would remain if there was treaty change, there will be some of us who would accept free movement, and likewise there will be some of us who wouldn't accept either of those things. The issue that unites these disparate groups is a lack of confidence in the current day and possible future EU.

wotsthat

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If you wanted a plan you should ask David Cameron, he's clearly called the vote without a plan for both options to force a bias towards remaining. You're being played by Dave if you think it's up to the leave campaign to give you a roadmap on how leave is going to work. After the vote, it's up to Dave!

It's always a disadvantage to plan for the unknown. The leave campaign 'roadmap' is nothing but a wishlist because they have no powers to turn wishes into reality.

It doesn't matter what Cameron's plans are in the event of a leave vote - he'll be toast and won't be able to implement any plans anyway.

I'm starting to think he might not survive a stay vote - they might need a new leader to try and unite the party. Theresa May probably until Boris takes over.