If we vote for Brexit what happens

CLAPTON

HanSpan wrote: »

But this will not be the case. Leaving the EU will NOT make any difference to immigration from the rest of the EU.

Its a commonly pasted argument for the Brexit camp that "Leaving the EU does not mean leaving the EEC....." If we wish to remain in the EEC or EEA or be part of the common market, and retain preferable trade arrangements, we will have to sign up to freedom of movement - as have Iceland, Switzerland and Norway.

This little nugget seems to be well hidden from those who plan to vote out based on the misguided view that we will suddenly have lower immigration and be able to refuse enty to all those Europeans. We won't. So if that is your reason for voting out it's worth reconsidering all the other factors.

Its worth your understanding that once we leave the EU we can CHOOSE not to enter an agreement that requires free moverment of people from the EU.

If the government of the day tries to sign up to free movement of people they will hopefully be thrown out of office asap.

HanSpan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

You can vote on EU directives via the EU parliament but only at the stage where they are being implemented. Once they are ratified you can't just randomly vote, the proposal to repeal it has to come from the EU commission, and you're "direct" representative there is 1 of 28.

Do you think people in this country affected adversely by EU policy feel the way you do about their say in how they are governed?

Take the steel again, thousands of constituents complained to their MP and the Business Secretary, a minister no less. Can they deliver the change the steelworkers need if a buyer cannot be found? Simple answer.

The Tampon Tax, spoken about by many MP's in the House of Commons, there's a grassroots campaign for this. Nothing has or will be done about this.

Actually the tampon tax IS being dealt with: https://www.google.com/search?q=tampon+tax&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b#q=tampon+tax+eu

CLAPTON

HanSpan wrote: »

Actually the tampon tax IS being dealt with: https://www.google.com/search?q=tampon+tax&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b#q=tampon+tax+eu

whilst the principle to me is about whether or not the UK parliament can alter our taxes (answer no in this case), it will be interesting to we what actual progress is made if the vote goes 'remain'.

Conrad

HanSpan wrote: »

Its a commonly pasted argument for the Brexit camp that "Leaving the EU does not mean leaving the EEC....." If we wish to remain in the EEC or EEA or be part of the common market, and retain preferable trade arrangements, we will have to sign up to freedom of movement - as have Iceland, Switzerland and Norway.

Only those with a narrow argument claim we MUST follow the Norway / Swiss model and you also ignore the fact Switzerland decides how much free movement she will accept, currently quite a bit of it.

A much more powerful EFTA with us in there will just carry on with current migration rules will it.........? The future is set in aspic is it?


You also assume we will just have to do what the EU says, but this is a total misnomer as we buy huge amounts from certain (not all) EU nations - no way on this earth will they wish to hamper those sales, especially given high EU unemployment and elections looming (punishing Britain and inflicting self harm would be way down French voters priority lists)


C'mon, we can do this

TrickyTree83

If it comes to fruition then I will happily concede that point for getting that particular issue around the tampon tax wrong.

"In the UK, tampons are subject to Value Added Tax (VAT) at a reduced rate of 5%, as opposed to the standard rate of 20% applied to the vast majority of products sold in the country. A petition calling for tampons to be fully exempted from VAT gained more than 125,000 signatures. The petition pointed out that there is no tax on exotic meats, but it has also been noted that there is a 20% rate on toilet paper and toothpaste. The petition gained the approval of Prime Minister David Cameron, who said "I wish we could get rid of this… There’s a problem with getting rid of VAT on certain individual issues because of the way this tax is regulated and set in Europe." Changes to EU legislation, which would require the approval of all 27 EU member states, would be required to change the rate."

Should we really require the EU member states to agree in order to do any of this?

mayonnaise

Conrad wrote: »

Chairman of Renault-Nissan – Jan 2016 – "we will adapt to the UK environment, there is nothing to worry about, whatever she decides"

Whoa whoa hold on for a sec. Here's what the CEO of Nissan actually said;

When asked how Nissan would react if the UK were to leave the EU, Mr Ghosn said: "If anything has to change, we [would] need to reconsider our strategy and our investments for the future."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24859486

Conrad wrote: »

and the founders of Wetherspoons and JCB want to leave

I can understand why the Weatherspoons guy would be in favour of leaving. After brexit, facing our self-imposed recession, his awful soulless joints serving undercooked food and cheap beer would be about the only meal out we can afford.

TrickyTree83

mayonnaise wrote: »

Whoa whoa hold on for a sec. Here's what the CEO of Nissan actually said;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24859486

I can understand why the Weatherspoons guy would be in favour of leaving. After brexit, facing our self-imposed recession, his awful soulless joints serving undercooked food and cheap beer would be about the only meal out we can afford.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1afaf414-b81f-11e5-b151-8e15c9a029fb.html#axzz4AtUhuaCE

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referendum-who-are-business-leaders-backing-brexit-want-uk-vote-leave-1545548

You can find business that backs brexit just the same as you can find them who back remain.

ruggedtoast

Conrad wrote: »

Just some of the complete misunderstandings on Remains side;


+ EU protects British workers - UK Govt's give us greater paternity and holiday rights than the EU


+ Independent UK would be isolated, without influence, a little nation of 70 million people - Tell that to Japan, Canada, Australia, Switzerland - I've never once heard their citizens decrying their 'isolated' status, after all they sit on all sorts of global rules bodies and task forces


+ EU tariffs will harm us - extremely unlikely as this would be counter-productive and cause less trade, less harmony, more risk all round, the very last thing vulnerable EU nations with high unemployment need and with general elections coming up (oh I know French cheese and wine makers, lets make your produce more expensive so fewer sales are made and you loose your incomes and jobs)


+ Polish plumbers and teachers will be sent home - just staggering ignorance and yet I keep hearing remains audiences saying daft things like this


+ We need Poles and Bulgarians to wipe the bums of our elderly, and pick cabbages - not if we insist some of the 1.5m unemployed Brits works for their benefits, or takes those jobs, and also less immigration will drive up wages in these sectors and be more attractive

You are omitting that none of these things have happened in the context of a nation withdrawing acrimoniously from a much larger bloc.

Japan is a vassal state of America (as are we, but they are still under occupation) . It has no independent foreign policy and is extremely vulnerable for all kinds of geopolitical and military reasons.

Canada is part of NAFTA. Are we part of NAFTA? What are we going to be part of if we secede from the largest trading bloc on the planet; the Free Trade Area of Clapton and Conrad And Their Eternal Mission To Turn The Clock Back Fifty Years? Great, that'll present a lot of opportunities for millions of our young people.

Switzerland, yeah super we are just like them. Maybe they can lend us some of the billions of dollars of hidden assets they hold from corrupt dictatorships, dodgy corporations and fleeing Nazi gold hoarders from WW2.

Australia, well - we abandoned them when we joined the EU and they were pretty upset about it. Incidentally, Aus, like ~Canada is predicating their entire economic future on mass immigration. Not something that would be terribly popular in the UKIP polling booths.

As ever, the Brexiters have no good reasons why we should leave. Not one positive, defined policy other than malformed, babbling nonsense about "controlling our destiny."

Rinoa

mayonnaise wrote: »

Whoa whoa hold on for a sec. Here's what the CEO of Nissan actually said;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24859486

I can understand why the Weatherspoons guy would be in favour of leaving. After brexit, facing our self-imposed recession, his awful soulless joints serving undercooked food and cheap beer would be about the only meal out we can afford.

Every CEO says they will reconsider their strategy if events change, it's the stock answer to every question about the EU.

But, can you provide examples of companies who have said "If the UK votes to leave we will close down all our operations in the UK"

Generali

Conrad wrote: »

Another example of daft Remain argument that assumes we'll just ride on a tide of commercial indifference like a jellyfish doing nothing to maximise our position, truly incredible that people have such a diminished view and oh so low horizons and imagination.


If we vote leave I want you remain guys to remember your low expectations and then lets compare to the reality as time goes by.

Why is this a daft remain argument? This is a senior member of the body that you idiots are relying on to try to dig you out of the mud if you are stupid enough to quit the EU. And you now want to dismiss what he says.

Pretty much every independent person with a clue about how finance, business or the economy works is telling you that you're wrong.

If your doctor tells you to give up smoking and you think there might be an idiot in the room then you might wonder whether it's the person that didn't spend 7 years in med school.

Still you never know, you might be right. Meanwhile the CEO of JP Morgan is wrong, the head of the IMF is wrong, the head of the WTO is wrong, the chief economist of my work is wrong, the Fed is wrong, the BoE is wrong, the CBI is wrong, Citibank is wrong. You're right though.

Oh and the immigrants of course. Don't forget the immigrants.