If we vote for Brexit what happens

Conrad

gfplux wrote: »

Sorry Conrad I did not read all of your post as I wanted to make the point that Denmark although not in the EU is in the Schengen zone. Meaning free movement of all EU citizens.
See here http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/schengen/index_en.htm

If there is a Brexit any negotiations with the EU for free trade will I understand mean that the UK will have to sign up to Schengen just like Denmark AND Switzeland have had to do.

Sure, this is the standard narrative, and I get why people are taken with it, but things are not set in stone in this regard, especially when it comes to negotiating with your biggest customer (us), which will have an epic trade deal with its Commonwealth. Again recognise we are a very large market for certain EU nations such as France (don't fall for Camerons 'we're only 8% of EU trade' as that underplays the importance of us to France and others)


Plus we could team up with the Swiss and Norwegians and put new terms on the table.


There are other possibilities. Maybe I'd even settle (for now) for a Norway deal, but I'm almost certain we'd do better than this


It comes down to how much confidence you have in us as deal makers and cunning manipulators. Personally I have 'epic' confidence.

Conrad

michaels wrote: »

This could be important though - if the less publicised ukip out campaign can reach the labour c2des who started to go that way in the ge (and remember by voting in the ge they demonstrated that they do vote) whilst the totally half-hearted official labour campaign fails to motivate the more affluent labour middle class stay supporters.

At Heywood and Middleton byelections in 2015 Labour lost 7,000 votes and UKIP gained 10,000. Even though Labour try to spin it otherwise that is a quantum shift.

Filo25

Fella wrote: »

I'd disagree with that pretty strongly. The Remain camp are fear-mongering on every subject they can think of such as the economy & national security. But no-one KNOWS if those things would be better or worse after Brexit, everything is just an opinion or a guess.

The leave camp on the other hand, are mainly accused of fear-mongering regarding immigration, but their position, that if we remain in the EU we have no control over our borders or on immigration levels, is not opinion, it is fact.

You didn't think that saying we had no veto on Turkish membership of the EU was fearmongering (and also a lie)?

CLAPTON

Filo25 wrote: »

You didn't think that saying we had no veto on Turkish membership of the EU was fearmongering (and also a lie)?

in what way can the growth of the EU to incorporate another state be considered 'fearmongering'
are you against the people of Turkey benefiting from free trade etc with the EU?

gfplux

LHW99 wrote: »

I would like to see this too. Unfortunately recent experience for Greece, particularly but others also hasn't convinced me its happening.
Maybe your tech company is doing well from Europe mwtp, but our (small) company used to earn 25% of its income from the EU before 2008. Ever since then that has dropped to below 10%, and shows no sign of improving.

When we joined the EEC from EFTA we were expecting the benefits of trading with a large entity. The way things are now, we should have a global outlook, and in my view the EU gets in the way of that.

That's very interesting LHW99,
Your example is not hot air or opinion but facts and facts seem to be in short supply.
Could you expand, has your Industry/product grown in the UK/EU/rest of the world.
If there is Brexit will the 10% trade with the EU disappear.
These are fascinating and frightening issues that you and your co workers will have to weigh up before voting.

Filo25

CLAPTON wrote: »

in what way can the growth of the EU to incorporate another state be considered 'fearmongering'
are you against the people of Turkey benefiting from free trade etc with the EU?

I think most Brexiters are anyway

CLAPTON

Filo25 wrote: »

I think most Brexiters are anyway

why do you think that suggesting the people of Turkey should have access to the greater wealth, available by free trade with the EU, is 'fearmongering'.

Filo25

It was an attempt to play to Islamophobia, hardly anything new in British politics mind you, the London mayoral was much the same.

It was also of course a blatant lie.

You can stop your ever tedious attempts to paint anyone who thinks this was fearmongering as racist.

CLAPTON

Filo25 wrote: »

It was an attempt to play to Islamophobia, hardly anything new in British politics mind you, the London mayoral was much the same.

It was also of course a blatant lie.

You can stop your ever tedious attempts to paint anyone who thinks this was fearmongering as racist.

the issue isn't whether the UK would have a veto (which I believe we would), but why you are so fearfull of the people of Turkey having full access to the EU. You seem full of fear at the thought even of discusssing the issue.

Indeed, it might be argued that its deedly immoral to keep these people in un-necessary poverty, when this can be simply remedied by free trade.

michaels

CLAPTON wrote: »

the issue isn't whether the UK would have a veto (which I believe we would), but why you are so fearfull of the people of Turkey having full access to the EU. You seem full of fear at the thought even of discusssing the issue.

Indeed, it might be argued that its deedly immoral to keep these people in un-necessary poverty, when this can be simply remedied by free trade.

Don't be so silly - it would be completely impossible for the EU to have a free trade agreement with Turkey nor visa free travel, cheap flights, reciprocal health care arrangements etc etc without there also being freedom of movement in both directions....