If we vote for Brexit what happens

Generali

Rinoa wrote: »

In the EU it's called a Taxpayer Identification Number.

More about it here from Liam Fox.

http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/fox-on-friday-the-eu-makes-a-stealthy-move-towards-common-european-taxation/

This is the EU Paper on the EU TINs.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/common/consultations/tax/2013_eutin_en.htm

Which seems pretty straightforward. They may be lying of course but seeing the farcical descent that the EU referendum debate has taken I'd be more likely to take an EU discussion paper at face value than pretty much any of the protagonists in the UK slanging match.

Rinoa wrote: »

Just a matter of time before part of your pay packet will go directly to the EU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw

The current state of the debate:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/man-voting-to-stay-in-eu-because-he-thinks-hes-sophisticated-20160422108212

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/man-who-has-never-left-huddersfield-thinks-britain-should-leave-the-eu-20160524109070

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/man-to-carefully-weigh-up-pros-and-cons-of-eu-then-just-be-racist-20160307106893

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3612257/Plans-EU-army-kept-SECRET-British-voters-day-referendum.html

kabayiri

It was just as vague and divisive in the Scottish referendum.

- no clear idea of currency
- no clear plan of shared defence , including Trident
- no realistic range predictions on revenue sources like oil
- bickering over acceptance or not by the EU of a new sovereign state.

And this was just a small state about the population size of Yorkshire!

So, why on earth did anyone expect the EU referendum argument to be any different?!!

We don't even know if the EU will be nasty or nice to us after the break up. Did it not enter Cameron's head to go ask them on his European road tour?

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

This is the EU Paper on the EU TINs.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/common/consultations/tax/2013_eutin_en.htm

Which seems pretty straightforward. They may be lying of course but seeing the farcical descent that the EU referendum debate has taken I'd be more likely to take an EU discussion paper at face value than pretty much any of the protagonists in the UK slanging match.

yes it seems very straightforward

a bit like the europe arrest warrant: it is very straight forward and easy to understand
and almost as scary as mayo and co find the idea of turkey joining the EU anytime this century

CLAPTON

mayonnaise wrote: »

I think they'll be pragmatic about it.

I agree ; they will be pragmatic and so will wish to continue trade to mutual advantage

Rinoa

Over the past week, top officials from the Polish government and the European Union have been involved in frantic talks aimed at defusing a dispute over what is seen in Brussels as a potential threat to the rule of law in Poland.
The clash has raised anew fundamental questions over the European project. In particular, they include what powers should the EU institutions have to protect the democratic nature of the union, and how prescriptive should Brussels be in establishing acceptable rules of the political game?
The current confrontation goes back to the landslide victories in parliamentary and presidential elections last year by Poland’s conservative Law and Justice party, led by former prime minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski.
Soon after the government took office, it canceled a series of appointments to the top court made by the previous government and replaced them with its own candidates. The two sides then argued over which were valid.
It also passed a law requiring a two-thirds majority, rather than a simple one, for rulings and other changes that would make it more difficult for the court—which the government views as dominated by political opponents—to block legislation.
In March, the court ruled the law unconstitutional, saying it would slow its work and deny justice. The government refused to print the court’s rulings.
The EU stepped into the domestic dispute late last year, warning that Poland risked creating two parallel legal systems and that the changes could undermine judicial independence—a requirement for EU members.
Brussels officials worry the court fight could herald a broader drift in Poland in an authoritarian direction, with the government chipping away at media, judicial and other freedoms.
The government has rejected the charge. “Democracy is alive and well in Poland,” Prime Minister Beata Szydlo said in January.
Polish officials acknowledge the crisis has impacted the economy, hitting investment decisions. Standard & Poor’s downgraded Polish debt in January citing concerns that the “system of institutional checks and balances has been eroded significantly.”
The EU’s executive on Monday backed away from triggering a formal legal procedure that could lead to Poland losing some of its voting rights in the bloc. Following talks Tuesday in Warsaw, Brussels has delayed any decision until next week.



For the EU, the fight is an unwelcome crisis at a time of multiple other challenges, including a referendum in the U.K. next month on whether to stay in the bloc or go.
The Polish challenge isn’t the first in this area. Most notably, the EU has found itself in a regular war of attrition with Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who has spoken in favor of an “illiberal new state.”
Brussels has battled a range of Mr. Orban’s plans, including measures critics say were intended to give the government a tighter grip over the central bank, the judiciary and its data-protection agency.
In the late 1990s, worries about the rise of the anti-migrant, right-wing Freedom Party in Austria—another theme back in the news—persuaded the bloc to create the rule-of-law sanctions Poland is now being threatened with.
Yet those powers are less than they seem. The application can be blocked by just one other member state—a veto that Mr. Orban has said he would provide for Poland.
As Johannes Hahn, the European commissioner in charge of enlargement negotiations, said Thursday, while the EU has real leverage over a country negotiating to join, “we have very modest leverage after the accession.”
Belgian Foreign Minister Didier Reynders wants that fixed. Faced with what he calls far-right and far-left populists, he said Monday that he was seeing growing support within the EU for a new toolbox focused as tightly on a country’s rule-of-law record as the bloc’s economic rules focus on fiscal policies.
“We must pay much more attention to the political criteria,” of membership, he said.
Yet many EU officials and diplomats say they see little prospect for that. The political mood, they say, is flowing in the opposite direction: anger at perceived interference from Brussels and growing calls for bolstering national sovereignty.
There has been plenty of criticism of the Polish government’s actions in Brussels, Berlin and even Washington. Yet even in traditional bastions of the EU like the Netherlands, Italy and France, the idea of handing power to EU officials to more closely monitor domestic institutions isn’t popular.
The result, says one senior EU official, is that Brussels will likely remain “stuck in a twilight zone,” trying to protect the checks-and-balances on governments without having real power to do so.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/poland-poses-latest-challenge-to-european-union-1464293761?mod=WSJ_article_EditorsPicks_3#livefyre-comment

The EU. Just one big happy family.

BobQ

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

You might think that the cabinet choosing our most powerful EU representative is democratic. I do not.

I don't believe that the head of the NHS was democratically elected to the position. They were chosen by the UK government, as was the UK commissioner for the EU.

As were the British Cabinet and the PM.

BobQ

Rinoa wrote: »

In the EU it's called a Taxpayer Identification Number.

More about it here from Liam Fox.

http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/fox-on-friday-the-eu-makes-a-stealthy-move-towards-common-european-taxation/

Just a matter of time before part of your pay packet will go directly to the EU.

You keep quoting articles from pro-Brexit sources that contain no substance.

On the Wednesday referred to (25th) the business of ECOFIN was to approve measures on CORPORATE taxation to address tax evasion. I have quoted the committee's press release.

There is nothing on that date that relates to EU TIN. Unless someone can show that these assertions are true they remain in the category of dubious claims by the Leave campaign, which has a record of lying.

As I under stand EU TIN it is an entirely voluntary method by which nations can share taxpayer information when they believe the individual has financial accounts in other EU nations to reduce the chances of fraud. Not some big brother scheme as it is being portrayed. The key point is that it is voluntary.

So point me to an EU website that records this alleged decision.

Sapphire

Rinoa wrote: »

http://www.wsj.com/articles/poland-poses-latest-challenge-to-european-union-1464293761?mod=WSJ_article_EditorsPicks_3#livefyre-comment

The EU. Just one big happy family.

This is as I thought things would develop. It is nonsense to try and force sovereign nations, with completely different histories, cultures and aspirations, into some kind of political union – especially one run so incompetently, and by Germany. The people who set up this project were idiots who did not learn the lessons of history.

I don't particularly like the current Polish government (though I can see reasons why such governments develop given certain histories of invasions and occupations, etc.). However, sovereign nations have the right to elect who they want, and to have political control of their our countries, according to the wishes of their electorates.

The EU is falling apart, and the sooner it does so, the better. Otherwise I fear the consequences are going to be much worse. :cool:

Making alliances with countries is fine when they share common interests and aspirations. Taking control of Europe is not.

mayonnaise

Sapphire wrote: »

The EU is falling apart, and the sooner it does so, the better. Otherwise I fear the consequences are going to be much worse. :cool:

If the EU is falling apart, why are 7 countries lining up to join?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11283616
Don't they know it's about to fall apart? Maybe you should inform them before it's too late?

CLAPTON

mayonnaise wrote: »

If the EU is falling apart, why are 7 countries lining up to join?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11283616
Don't they know it's about to fall apart? Maybe you should inform them before it's too late?

like benefit scroungers everywhere, the expectation of free money is always attractive as is free movement of people