If we vote for Brexit what happens

Generali

Sapphire wrote: »

Indeed. That was my interpretation – that the Swiss are employing common sense in this respect by making it clear they do not want to belong to the EU. It's also indicative that Switzerland is an affluent country, unlike those that do want to join the Paradise on Earth that is the EU (or joined it relatively recently). Presumably the Swiss don't want their economy to be trashed, etc., and have taken steps to avoid this.

I think that you're using the wrong tense. You make events of almost a quarter century ago sound current.

That the Swiss decided that the EU wasn't for them in 1992 sounds like they didn't like the idea of a single market in banking. Preventing customers avoid tax wouldn't have been great for business after all.

Generali

Rinoa wrote: »

The motion to withdraw their application was entitled "EU membership - achieving clarity"

They've obviously seen what's happened to the EU and, for the avoidance of doubt, wanted to make it abundantly clear their former application is 100% dead in the water.

I don't think they are happy with the EU insisting they accept every immigrant that turns up on their borders.

Yup, maybe. See above for the real reason.

BobQ

Something to fuel the immigration debate that so preoccupies the Brexit supporters.....

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/brexit/abstract.asp?index=5053

Its conclusions include....

Many people are concerned that immigration reduces the pay and job chances of the UKborn due to more competition for jobs. But immigrants consume goods and services and this increased demand helps to create more employment opportunities. Immigrants also might have skills that complement UK-born workers. So we need empirical evidence to settle the issue of whether the economic impact of immigration is negative or positive for the UK-born.

 New evidence in this Report shows that the areas of the UK with large increases in EU immigration did not suffer greater falls in the jobs and pay of UK-born workers. The big falls in wages after 2008 are due to the global financial crisis and a weak economic recovery, not to immigration.

 There is also little effect of EU immigration on inequality through reducing the pay and jobs of less skilled UK workers. Changes in wages and joblessness for less educated UKborn workers show little correlation with changes in EU immigration.

 EU immigrants pay more in taxes than they take out in welfare and the use of public services. They therefore help reduce the budget deficit. Immigrants do not have a negative effect on local services such as crime, education, health, or social housing

I know! Its all a Government manufactured, EU sponsored conspiracy.......

Sapphire

Generali wrote: »

I think that you're using the wrong tense. You make events of almost a quarter century ago sound current.

Please stop trying to twist my argument to make it fit your own wishes. They fact is that the Swiss confirmed recently that they did not wish to join the EU.

So let's just leave it at that, since I can't be bothered with tit-for-tat spats. :cool:

Generali

Sapphire wrote: »

Please stop trying to twist my argument to make it fit your own wishes. They fact is that the Swiss confirmed recently that they did not wish to join the EU.

So let's just leave it at that, since I can't be bothered with tit-for-tat spats. :cool:

Nor can I but isn't it that the Swiss recently confirmed that they had decided that they didn't wish to join the EU 20 odd years ago and someone has subsequently dragged up that fact and reindroduced it to make it look like a recent decision which has a potential bearing on the Brexit/Remainiac debate?

The 'debate' is getting silly, everyone is engaged in hyperbolic BS frankly.

MiserlyMartin

BobQ wrote: »

Something to fuel the immigration debate that so preoccupies the Brexit supporters.....

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/brexit/abstract.asp?index=5053

Its conclusions include....



I know! Its all a Government manufactured, EU sponsored conspiracy.......

Be sure to read that report again when an immigrant from the EU including an "Asylum Seeker" from outside the EU takes your job and undercuts your wage. I see these workers flooding in, the bosses are rather keen on them. Its only a matter of time.

Rinoa

BobQ wrote: »

Something to fuel the immigration debate that so preoccupies the Brexit supporters.....

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/brexit/abstract.asp?index=5053

Its conclusions include....



I know! Its all a Government manufactured, EU sponsored conspiracy.......

There's probably not much affect on jobs. But with 350,000 net immigration every year and no extra houses, doctors surgeries, schools etc that's where many see the problems.

MiserlyMartin

Generali wrote: »

Nor can I but isn't it that the Swiss recently confirmed that they had decided that they didn't wish to join the EU 20 odd years ago and someone has subsequently dragged up that fact and reindroduced it to make it look like a recent decision which has a potential bearing on the Brexit/Remainiac debate?

The 'debate' is getting silly, everyone is engaged in hyperbolic BS frankly.

Its not really silly to drag this up since the leave campaign are involved with all sorts manipulation of the facts and inaccurate claims to brainwash the masses and scare them into staying in. What are the leave campaign supposed to do, sit back and not answer it back. Switzerland is a perfect example of how prosperous a country can be outside the EU. Its something Cameron and Osborne would rather you didn't know.

HornetSaver

Rinoa wrote: »

The motion to withdraw their application was entitled "EU membership - achieving clarity"

They've obviously seen what's happened to the EU and, for the avoidance of doubt, wanted to make it abundantly clear their former application is 100% dead in the water.

To my knowledge you have not had a good word to say about the EU in the last 24 years. I have never read a post from you with the phrase "I am going to vote leave" (or "I would vote leave", if you do not have a vote), but I don't think one is necessary for forumites to be absolutely sure of your intentions.

Same goes for Switzerland, and this was the case even before the election of a relatively anti-immigration government.

Moby

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Wow.

"Fact is if it wasnt for the EU this govmt would have privatised much more than it has and reduced the working conditions of thousands of people"

It's not fact, it never happened. It's pure conjecture on your part.

"Thatchers policies would never have been implemented in a federation. The basis of a federation is compromise, tacking to the middle, there would never be a right wing movement taking over, even if individual countries elected such types within their own borders."

A fundamental mis-understanding of how the EU is ran. The commission is made up of representatives chosen by the governments of the day in the respective member state. So if the far right got in across the EU then the commission would be made up of far right commissioners. There would be no "tacking to the middle".

"As for Labour Brexiteers....they are complete nut jobs as well because it's patently obvious as Rugged Toast said that Brexit will result in an independent Scotland and a succession of right wing govmts in England who will subsequently embark on a Thatcherite economic agenda of deregulated markets unconstrained by EU directives, and probably destroy the NHS in the process."

The only situation in which a referendum on Scottish independence would come about was if Scotland voted for Remain but the UK as a whole voted for Leave. They don't like sharing democracy with the English, Welsh and Northern Irish but are all for sharing it with the French, Germans, etc... hypocrisy of the highest order. They want to remain in the EU but be free of the Union, that is not an independent Scotland as the newly formed SNP GO rightly point out. The party that attempts to destroy the NHS will undoubtedly make themselves un-electable for an entire generation, if not more. You know that, I know that and so does everyone else reading this. It's a button they will never fully press no matter how much the political parties may nibble around the edges. Before you go Tory bashing I'd like to remind you about the Labour PFI.. debacle (I wanted to say scandal). Debt ridden trusts giving cash to private companies under ludicrous contracts that you cannot terminate. Helpful when you're trying to deal with a growing and ageing population.

"Brexiteers tend to be right wing nut jobs preoccupied with the English constitution and so so worried about it being supplanted by Brussels law. They are worried about being in control of our borders to keep johnny foreigner at bay; they are worried about our laws, our trade rights, our fishing rights etc etc. I'm more worried about them! Lets face it despite a sprinkling of Labour odd balls the Brexit movement is basically made up of and energised by UKIP and right wing tories! Says a lot that does!"

I guess I'm a "right wing nut job" then. I'd be quite happy with British laws for everyone who lives on these islands. I feel very sorry for the fishermen, their families and the communities around them who struggled and wish we'd stood up for them and parked a destroyer doing figure 8's in the North Sea to make the point. Despite previously voting Lib Dem and Labour in the past, after the vaunted Tony Blair took us to war on a lie and Gordon failed to plan for the crash in 2008 and racked up a huge mountain of debt to show for it I can't possibly bring myself to vote for them again. So if that makes me a right wing tory/UKIP nut job then I'm proud to be so.

Sorry mate.... I did read your reply but dont agree and I think your worries about a right wing commission will never be realised. Our future lies in the heart of Europe and hopefully in few weeks time we'll see an end to this little Englander nonsense for ageneration at least!