If we vote for Brexit what happens

Generali

Rinoa wrote: »

And when important decisions need to be made, Hollande and Merkel have a chat and agree what needs to be done.

Of course, it's all democratic. :rotfl:

Which of them weren't elected in your opinion please?

Generali

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Perhaps it's a wider discussion as to how taxpayers money is spent. People are being given choices and rejecting them. At this rate all that will be left is the state pension. If we are all in it together then we are going to have to accept less in retirement.

People are going to have to save more or retire later. Working from 23-65 while mucking about from 0-23 and then 65-85 is unlikely to pay for the mucking about time for all but a few..

michaels

Generali wrote: »

Which of them weren't elected in your opinion please?

I agree, at least 15% of the EU electorate get a say in the big EU decisions, can't say much more democratic than that, although personally perhaps it would make more sense if we limited the electorate to gentlemen (which obviously excludes the working class and women).


I am sure everyone spotted the sarcasm above.

chewmylegoff

gfplux wrote: »

This is way off topic, but....
Some posters have referred to the rise of right wing Politics in Europe. I don't completely agree but from what I see of the present Conservative Government their lurch to the right with The Privatisation of Schools and In due course the NHS together with withdrawing financial aid to the disabled are huge indicators of Right wing politics.
However it is not so off topic.
Do you think that those same Politiciens after Brexit will want to keep in the negotiations any that make it more difficult for business to make more money like workers rights and consumer protection. I suspect not.

Schools are not being privatised in any meaningful way, the NHS is not being privatised and the proposals to cut disability benefits were to stop making PIP payments to people who eg. needed a handrail in their bathroom but otherwise had no ongoing costs - it's hardly paraplegics being euthanised is it?!. The only people who consider the current administration of this party to be lurching to the right are those who are desperate for the Labour Party to regain the centre ground the tories are nesting on.

Donald Trump is right wing. I'm not even convinced Cameron is even right of centre.

Rinoa

Generali wrote: »

Which of them weren't elected in your opinion please?

Oh, they're all elected. Every last one of them.

But only a small number of those elected appear to make the decisions.

Plenty of EU laws the UK don't like, but can you seriously imagine any EU law coming into force which France and Germany didn't agree to?

Tromking

CLAPTON wrote: »

that isn't what is generally meant by the rise of right wing political parties in europe

It is however a useful distraction from the fact that the far right is on the rise in the EU and a vote to remain argubably links us closer to the racists, xenophobes and nationalists that abound on mainland Europe nowadays. Cue some Leftist making a false equivilence with the moderate (in comparison) UKIP.

antrobus

Rinoa wrote: »

And when important decisions need to be made, Hollande and Merkel have a chat and agree what needs to be done.

Of course, it's all democratic. :rotfl:

And when important decisions need to be made, Cameron and Osborne have a chat and agree what needs to be done.

How do you think democracy works?:rotfl:

mayonnaise

Tromking wrote: »

It is however a useful distraction from the fact that the far right is on the rise in the EU and a vote to remain argubably links us closer to the racists, xenophobes and nationalists that abound on mainland Europe nowadays. Cue some Leftist making a false equivilence with the moderate (in comparison) UKIP.

Your 'moderate' UKIP is spreading exactly the same message as Front National, Pegida, Alternativ fuer Deutschland, etc...
Anti EU, extreme nationalism and blame the migrants for all ills of society.
Don't presume our extreme right smells better than theirs. It's all the same odious crap.

Rinoa

antrobus wrote: »

And when important decisions need to be made, Cameron and Osborne have a chat and agree what needs to be done.

How do you think democracy works?:rotfl:

We can change Cameron and Osborne next election. That's democracy

We can't change Merkel and Hollande whoever we vote for. That's not democracy.

Sapphire

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Perhaps it's a wider discussion as to how taxpayers money is spent. People are being given choices and rejecting them. At this rate all that will be left is the state pension. If we are all in it together then we are going to have to accept less in retirement.

I don't know how a large number of pensioners could survive on the basic state pension. There are many who can't even heat their homes properly – and they are people who have often worked hard and paid in all their lives, brought up children without nearly the amount of benefits younger generations receive, and made do without enjoying the frills and fripperies that younger generations appear to expect as their God-given right these days.

I agree that pensioners who are in the higher tax bracket could even do with not receiving state pensions, but to apply such a concept in a blanket way would be to condemn many old people who are already in a bad way to a state that I thought we had left decades ago – especially given that old people are not looked after by their families in the way they used to be.

To blame the decreasing finances of many on defenceless old people is criminal and shows a lack of compassion for the generations that have (in many cases) created spoiled, selfish and ungrateful offspring, in my view. Any lowering of people's standard of living (and it is not that great yet, in world terms) is much more to do with the social engineering that has taken place in the last few decades. Keep the 'middle and lower classes' quiet initially, allowing them to borrow to their hearts' content, and plying them with benefits courtesy of fellow taxpayers, so they have an illusion of wealth. You do all this to the benefit of the uncaring, very richest global elites, but to the longer term detriment of the 'masses'. An ever-increasing pool of imported cheap labour (and fewer jobs in any case due to advances in technology) enables an increasing erosion of pay for working people, and benefits the (minority) very wealthy global elites. That's coupled with the selling off of all our manufacturing and industry to foreign companies, which care nothing for our workforce. It ain't going to end well (we are already seeing signs of that).

I'm proud of the achievements of my decent (and heroic) parents and grand-parents, and would never begrudge them a state pension. I'm also glad to have lived in something of a golden age (though many people don't realise this), and very pleased not to belong to the youngest generations (for many reasons).