If we vote for Brexit what happens

vivatifosi

There's an interesting couple of paragraphs on Turkey in Tim Marshall's book, Prisoners of Geography. Essentially says that the difficulty for Turkey is finding out where it belongs in the world. It isn't wanted by the Mid East as it isn't Arab, it doesn't sit with and has never been part of the Eastern Bloc, nor does it easily fit with the EU.

Apologies for the diversion...

CLAPTON

vivatifosi wrote: »

There's an interesting couple of paragraphs on Turkey in Tim Marshall's book, Prisoners of Geography. Essentially says that the difficulty for Turkey is finding out where it belongs in the world. It isn't wanted by the Mid East as it isn't Arab, it doesn't sit with and has never been part of the Eastern Bloc, nor does it easily fit with the EU.

Apologies for the diversion...

apart from dogma, one wonders why a free trade agreement can't be reached: you know one with the tariff free movement of goods and services :
wonder why no-ones thought of that for the whole of europe and surrounding areas or even the whole world.

vivatifosi

CLAPTON wrote: »

apart from dogma, one wonders why a free trade agreement can't be reached: you know one with the tariff free movement of goods and services :
wonder why no-ones thought of that for the whole of europe and surrounding areas or even the whole world.

Quite frankly, for Turkey, I think that's what should be agreed. I don't know much about the politics, but I do know that the schism with the Greeks runs deep. I'm sure that the Greeks and Cypriots will do all that they can to keep the Turks at arms length.

Ironically, if they feel that the Turks are pushing too hard, then that may well end up being the Greek compromise, which would be good for the Turks too. Though I doubt that many Turkish goods will be sold in Greece and vice versa.

CLAPTON

vivatifosi wrote: »

Quite frankly, for Turkey, I think that's what should be agreed. I don't know much about the politics, but I do know that the schism with the Greeks runs deep. I'm sure that the Greeks and Cypriots will do all that they can to keep the Turks at arms length.

Ironically, if they feel that the Turks are pushing too hard, then that may well end up being the Greek compromise, which would be good for the Turks too. Though I doubt that many Turkish goods will be sold in Greece and vice versa.

sadly another failure of the european politicians : Cyprus should never been allowed to join without a solution to the Turkish Cypriot problem.

movilogo

I currently live in Turkey. I don't know anyone here at all who is expecting Turkey to get the full free movement EU deal.

You are underestimating the IQ of Eurocrats. Turkey got visa free access to Schengen zone already. Full inclusion to EU only a matter of time.

Can't terrorists fake British passports too?

It is difficult to enter UK with a fake British passport thru proper channels. However, they can enter other other countries with fake British passport.

happylucky

movilogo wrote: »

You are underestimating the IQ of Eurocrats. Turkey got visa free access to Schengen zone already. Full inclusion to EU only a matter of time.

Anyone interested in the issue of Turkish visa relaxation in the schengen zone will enjoy this link regarding the president's current take on it (published just a couple of days ago):

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=517&nID=96735&NewsCatID=351

It might also give some insight into the relationship between Turkey and the EU in general and the likelihood of a future marriage.

Moby

CLAPTON wrote: »

It's strange how you have great faith in the ruling class in all countries except the UK : how does this work?
well, even here, if the matter is about the EU you seem to have unlimited faith and support for the ruling class ; welcome on board.

This isn't a class issue despite your efforts to twist every issue by your stereotype of my views/worldview.

People in Eastern Europe generally believe their long term futures would be best served as part of a wider community ie the EU. Not necessarily a good thing for people already in the EU of course in the short term but the view taken is that an integrated westernised Turkey is better than a radical islamic eastern looking Turkey.....even accepting the consequences you repeatedly mention re. resources/population. Also remember Cameron has actively encouraged Turkey's accession because he sees them as ally against the France German axis.

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

This isn't a class issue despite your efforts to twist every issue by your stereotype of my views/worldview.

People in Eastern Europe generally believe their long term futures would be best served as part of a wider community ie the EU. Not necessarily a good thing for people already in the EU of course in the short term but the view taken is that an integrated westernised Turkey is better than a radical islamic eastern looking Turkey.....even accepting the consequences you repeatedly mention re. resources/population. Also remember Cameron has actively encouraged Turkey's accession because he sees them as ally against the France German axis.

lets be friends now : you have moved a long way in a short time.
only a short while ago you were defending those IRA supporters who justified the murder of 10s of millions in the name of socialism.
now you are in unqualified praise of the CBI, IMF and all the ruling class of the EU.
only a short journey now to praising cameron and his team


I believe that the free trade with all the people of the world would help to raise living standards for all.
The peoples of europe have not been offered the option of free trade because of the political agenda of the european ruling class (whom you see to have a new found admiration.

I don't think we currently have an option of a westernised Turkey but we could have one with free trade.

Moby

CLAPTON wrote: »

lets be friends now : you have moved a long way in a short time.
only a short while ago you were defending those IRA supporters who justified the murder of 10s of millions in the name of socialism.
now you are in unqualified praise of the CBI, IMF and all the ruling class of the EU.
only a short journey now to praising cameron and his team


I believe that the free trade with all the people of the world would help to raise living standards for all.
The peoples of europe have not been offered the option of free trade because of the political agenda of the european ruling class (whom you see to have a new found admiration.

I don't think we currently have an option of a westernised Turkey but we could have one with free trade.

As always Clapton I don't recognise this warped characterisation of my views. I also don't have any idea what you mean in your simplistic characterisation of free trade. There are always interests and barriers; religion, geography, culture, history that are relevant. I don't see Europe as having a ruling class............that's your depiction not mine. I like the Social Chapter a lot though;)

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

As always Clapton I don't recognise this warped characterisation of my views. I also don't have any idea what you mean in your simplistic characterisation of free trade. There are always interests and barriers; religion, geography, culture, history that are relevant. I don't see Europe as having a ruling class............that's your depiction not mine. I like the Social Chapter a lot though;)

by free trade I mean trade without tariff barriers