If we vote for Brexit what happens

Arklight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

This is like groundhog day - another project fear anti-UK post from an EU resident.
Quelle surprise.

If you lived here (as I do) you would see that not so many are desperate to flee as you imagine from your EU hidey-hole.

Why do you think they came to the UK in the first place?
Do you think they would leave and abandon what they are here for (money) before there is any evidence that they need to go?
Some may well leave.
Most will not unless they have to.

Actually I know quite a few people who are leaving.

Apparently their buy to let landlords are most worried about it.

Thrugelmir

BobQ wrote: »

I think you have misunderstood the record of the Labour years. In short the Tories got lucky that people likeyou believed them.

Blair and Brown painted a picture of unanimity that couldn't been further from the truth. As in hindsight we learnt that they fell out in 2005. Over Brown's welfare/public sector plans and spending. Simply unsustainable. To suggest luck is sheer folly.

Conrad

BobQ if you want to get a sense of the political momentum, hop over to YouTube.

You will find right wing vids and Youtubers get massively more hits and interest than left, the difference is night and day.

Bare in mind polls show 45% of French youth support Le Pen and you see that conservatism is enjoying a renaissance. Hollands Pm was pushed well to the right by Wilders. Swedens UKIP lead the polls.

Check out the face of youth news on YouTube, Paul Joseph Watson, he's had a billions views, way more influencial than the Guardian amongst the yoof.

The left are viewed now as authoritarian manipulators, fake news personified. Notice how it's lefties that want to shut down debate and take eternal offence at everything. Righties are far more willing to hear alternate voices.

Watch that other rising star, Milo on YouTube, and see how the left constantly try to shout down his talks, you never see this in reverse with righties trying to close down fee speech. At his Berkeley talk the left rioted and smashed things up, this is par for the course for the arrogant left now. No ones falling for it anymore.

Conrad

Arklight wrote: »

Actually I know quite a few people who are leaving.

Apparently their buy to let landlords are most worried about it.

Huge numbers still comming each month so if a few leave, hey ho, will help reduce stress on infrastructure and housing and free up some jobs. Many young Brits had the entry level jobs they used to do ripped away from them, so let's restore some fairness and balance.

Private_Church

BobQ wrote: »

I think you have misunderstood the record of the Labour years. Labour did a great deal to create a fair society (eg surestart) and improved NHS and education. But the personal failiure of Blair (on Iraq), the election of an uncharismatic leader (Brown) and the onset of the world financial crisis enabled the Tories and the media to present Labour as having failed. In short the Tories got lucky that people likeyou believed them.

I disagree Bob. The "fair society" as you call it included "making work not pay" because staying on the dole (with children) meant people were given more in benefits than many people earned working 50-60hrs a week. As I come from a Council Estate and witnessed it on a daily basis I believe I am qualified to have my opinion and I genuinely knew people who gave up work because they would receive more in benefits than they earned.

The Housing benefit bill that rose year on year which the landlords who accepted Housing Benefit just embraced the "money tree". Do you remember towards the end of New Labour's debacle of a term in office they bought in a fantastic scheme whereby they gave children from unemployed families vouchers for free laptops, many of those laptops ended up on E-bay being sold by their parents. Then we have the car scrappage scheme, that was a great one where Labour handed out more cash for people to put towards buying a new car, the idea being it would kick start the economy and help get older polluting cars off the roads. What actually happend was around 90% of the new cars were imported and the scheme could be used to buy large petrol guzzlers so who gained most from the scheme? Nissan,Mazda,Toyota?. .How many new "stealth taxes" did they bring in? just be honest with the public and raise income tax if they wanted to fund their schemes.

Trust me I could go on for hours about the issues with Labour policies for the unemployed and I promise not to bring up the embarrassment of tax credits which again encouraged people to do as little as possible and certainly didn't work for the self employed who did bother to get out of bed and who found they had £1,000's of overpayments to pay back, sometimes just when they needed the help it wasn't there.

You then mention the NHS. I don't work in the NHS but I do know a thing or two about the PFI deals that Labour signed. That was another huge mistake. Sure they did some good things including contracts with private hospitals to reduce the waiting lists which I think has been a success. I and my wife had fantastic treatment at the Horder Centre ,Crowborough (Sussex).

Vocational training was a complete joke under New Labour, same as the Tories in that they promise much but in reality delivered very little indeed with so called 3yr apprenticeships being part time 2 days a week coarses when they should have been 3yrs full time coarses. What we ended up with was poor quality coarses churning our poorly qualified workers. You may disagree but I talk from my experience of dealing with the CITB.

Housing..............Remind me how many Social Housing units did New Labour build in 13 years of being in Government?. That was an utter disgrace and will never be forgotten by the low paid, low skilled and many caring middle class voters,you know Bob the people Labour needed to gain power and then let down. I cheered in 1997 when New Labour won and now I detest them with a passion.

They did implement the Right to Roam which was a good idea and I thank them for that.

I have never believed a complex issue like the EU should be resolved by a referendum. Its nothing to do with "only the educated" being allowed to vote. The fact is that everyone can express a view based on their gut feeling about an issue, but few have the time or inclination in their busy lives to understand all the issues. Yes some people are also incapable of understanding the issues. For those reasons I would rather rely on elected politicians to decide based on the advice of experts.

I don't agree when so much is at stake. The EU must integrate further to survive but you believe the public should let MP's decide on our long term future, whether or not we should give up more and more of our independence. These same MP's who serve for 5yrs in many cases shoudl be allowed to make such an important decision is just not democracy. What we should have had during the referendum was a body of people (judiciary?) who had the power to bring both sides to book over their claims. Personally I used full facts type websites along with the EU's own website to form my opinions. The majority of MP's voted to remain but the majority of constituencies voted to leave (around 420) so how do we keep democracy clean Bob?. MP's are there to represent us for a term of 5 years so are you saying they should ignore the will of their constituents?.

But we had one and now we have to abide by the result and all its consequences. You clearly wanted one and got one. But tell me how many people in the electorate fully understood the implications either way. I had a strong view to remain, but it was never more than 60/40, and while I spent hours reading into the issue I cannot claim to have understand all the implications. Others I know hardly thought about it. Either way we will never know if we made the right decision as a nation.

Yes ,I did want one and if the remain side had won I'm pretty sure my opinions along with the rest of the Leave voters would have been totally ignored. If not ,what possibly could have been done to appease us given the complete joke of a Deal Cameron came back with?. The EU don't like referendum unless they get the right decision so what would they have been prepared to give on?. You may cop out and say its purely hypothetical but many remain voters believe they should still have a voice. When Labour lost the GE in 2010 they were totally ignored why should this be different?.

The marketing has worked well for them, you do not like what they are doing but you are persuaded they are best. The problem is there is no credible opposition and until that changes choice does not exist so we naturally support the incumbent as we have no yardstick to judge them against.

This I agree with and we need a credible opposition but I fear Labour will break apart and the Tories will have free range. My politics are centre right, Tory with a conscience you might say ,although I detest Labour we need them.

Believe it or not I've tried to keep my post to a minimum......:)

mrginge

BobQ wrote: »

I think you have misunderstood the record of the Labour years. Labour did a great deal to create a fair society (eg surestart) and improved NHS and education.

Anyone can create a fairer society through spending.

Well, in the short term anyway.

Thrugelmir

mrginge wrote: »

Anyone can create a fairer society through spending.

Well, in the short term anyway.

Despite the initial foregivings. The minimum wage is turning out to be an equitable policy. Though at the time of introduction ever increasing globalisation and zero hour contracts weren't on the agenda.

cogito

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Despite the initial foregivings. The minimum wage is turning out to be an equitable policy. Though at the time of introduction ever increasing globalisation and zero hour contracts weren't on the agenda.

Zero hour contracts were one of the unintended consequences of the minimum wage. There's an arm of the Civil Service which is supposed to examine the possible effects of government policy before it's enacted but the one thing that they fail to consider is the one thing that inevitably happens. Not that zero hour contracts are necessarily a bad thing.

gfplux

The_Last_Username wrote: »

According to whom are these "considering leaving"?
UK meeja, perchance?

Also, are they considering leaving more than they usually do; IME these economic migrants are often fickle and will go where the greatest earning opportunity is at the time.
(I have considerable experience in this area, both past and current.)

Here in Lincolnshire there is little evidence of any leaving, other than media portrayal which certainly bears no relation to this area.
Not just in regards to agriculture, either.


Now as has already been asked of you and since Project Fear is now known not to work, rather than being negative towards us here in the UK why not instead attempt to convince us of the success of EU economic policy?

Firstly I said immigrant workers from EU 14 were considering leaving. There are very few from that area working in the fields of Lincolnshire.
Secondly it is my opinion as a Brit immigrant in Luxembourg that I can more easily tune in to the thought processes of workers from EU14 than you do.

gfplux

Interesting piece from Sky News about student immigration. The figures being quoted surprised me.
http://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-brexit-and-the-student-migration-paradox-10840378

"Foreign students come in, pay fees, and increase the demand for property.
The success of the university was one factor in Sunderland turning round a declining population, that saw it fall behind its neighbour and rival Newcastle.
And so it is a business model that increases net migration.
Yet, the Government has an official target that seeks to reduce net migration."
And, indeed, there can be little doubt that overall increases in migration helped boost the number of people who voted for Brexit, in Sunderland and across England and Wales.

I always thought the drop in student numbers would be EU students but this article suggests that "international" students are also turning away from Britain.