If we vote for Brexit what happens

Thrugelmir

gfplux wrote: »

I think she just repeated what she may have said before but certainly what many others have said and will keep on saying. Just because a truth is repeated does not make it any the less the truth. Just like repeating lies and distortions makes them no less lies and distortions.

Let me quote her again.
"“There will be a lot of your readers who – when they saw Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, and all these people standing outside that bus saying £350m a week extra for the NHS – couldn’t believe senior politicians would stand in front of it unless it was the truth,” she tells the Yorkshire Post."

Touche. Though I would put this on an even higher level. Was there a necessity for an emergency budget. (The EU may need one though).

George Osborne will warn that he would have to fill the £30bn black hole in public finances triggered by a vote to leave the European Union by hiking income tax, alcohol and petrol duties and making massive cuts to the NHS, schools and defence.

In a sign of the panic gripping the remain campaign, the chancellor plans to say that the hit to the economy will be so large that he will have little choice but to tear apart Conservative manifesto promises in an emergency budget delivered within weeks of an out vote.

gfplux

Amazing, I am beginning to warm to a spin Doctor

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/16/campbell-attacks-mays-easter-message-to-nation?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=221969&subid=19475669&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

"Reacting to the message, Alastair Campbell, who famously said when working for Tony Blair that “we don’t do God”, suggested May should tread carefully when linking her faith to the political challenges facing the country. “I think even vicars’ daughters should be a little wary of allying their politics to their faith,” he said. “She does not exactly say if God had a vote he would have voted Leave, but she gets closer to it than she should. If she really thinks she is leading a united country full of hope ... I suggest she gets out more.”"

Just like some on this thread, "is she losing the argument"

A_Medium_Size_Jock

davomcdave wrote: »

The latest ONS data for hate crimes was published back in October:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/559319/hate-crime-1516-hosb1116.pdf

and it has an annex specifically covering the increase in hate crimes post-EU referendum. Overall the number of hate crimes between 2015 and 2016 reporting periods rose by 19%.

As you can see on pages 18-19 of the report, compared to the start of 2016 hate crimes roughly doubled in the direct aftermath of the referendum before falling back to what appears to be a level elevated from prior to the referendum by about 20% or so.

The bigger problem is the massive increase in aggravated, i.e. more serious, offences. They have increased by 150% since prior to the referendum being called and as you can see from the admittedly noisy daily data (p20) there is a clear spike in aggravated offences in the days immediately after the referendum.

From the data, and there is regional force data that is more up-to-date that you can find with a quick Google, it looks to me like there was a big spike in offences which has subsided to a level higher than previously. Talking heads seem to blame it on racists feeling vindicated in their beliefs by the Brexit vote and so more likely to abuse someone or beat them up than prior to the referendum.

I note that despite earlier posts you ignore the points made and continue your tirade.

Firstly (as already said) the UK REMAINS one of the friendliest and safest countries on Earth.
We know also that we (what you have not said, I note) have been told that the method of reporting has changed and this may have lead to an increase.
As asked of you before, give numbers - percentages are irrelevant since a rise of 19/20% in a small figure REMAINS a small figure.
I note from your link that the annex reporting post-Brexit crimes had by the end of August 2016 returned to approximately at the level it was prior to Brexit. Slightly higher perhaps, but no more than slightly.
You do not mention that fact.
Why?

Second I have asked you to compare statistics with elsewhere in Europe.
You have not.
Why?

Is it because Europe has a high rate comparatively?

FRA data – as of November 2016 – indicate that violence, harassment,threats and xenophobic speech targeting asylum seekers and migrants remain pervasive and grave across the European Union (EU), whether committed by state authorities, private companies or individuals, or vigilante groups.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwihzdfq5ajTAhVFtxQKHSBqAZEQFggrMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffra.europa.eu%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Ffra_uploads%2Ffra-2016-november-monthly-focus-hate-crime_en.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEtd6RR69JEXd5WQoxSF6rw-F5Pow&bvm=bv.152479541,d.ZWM

Then should we consider for example the number of attacks on refugee housing in Austria?
The police violence against migrants in France?
Or the same in Serbia?

Yet you choose to continue in your attempt to make Britain appear violent towards migrants.
Tell us why that is?
Because you are not making yourself look so much pro-remain as anti-British.

vivatifosi

gfplux wrote: »

Amazing, I am beginning to warm to a spin Doctor

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/16/campbell-attacks-mays-easter-message-to-nation?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=221969&subid=19475669&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

"Reacting to the message, Alastair Campbell, who famously said when working for Tony Blair that “we don’t do God”, suggested May should tread carefully when linking her faith to the political challenges facing the country. “I think even vicars’ daughters should be a little wary of allying their politics to their faith,” he said. “She does not exactly say if God had a vote he would have voted Leave, but she gets closer to it than she should. If she really thinks she is leading a united country full of hope ... I suggest she gets out more.”"

Just like some on this thread, "is she losing the argument"

What ludicrous bullocks Campbell spouts. Not a huge fan of mixing religion and politics, but the bit about God voting leave is ludicrous. Campbell conveniently forgets that May campaigned for remain.

BobQ

gfplux wrote: »

Amazing, I am beginning to warm to a spin Doctor

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/16/campbell-attacks-mays-easter-message-to-nation?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=221969&subid=19475669&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

"Reacting to the message, Alastair Campbell, who famously said when working for Tony Blair that “we don’t do God”, suggested May should tread carefully when linking her faith to the political challenges facing the country. “I think even vicars’ daughters should be a little wary of allying their politics to their faith,” he said. “She does not exactly say if God had a vote he would have voted Leave, but she gets closer to it than she should. If she really thinks she is leading a united country full of hope ... I suggest she gets out more.”"

Just like some on this thread, "is she losing the argument"

vivatifosi wrote: »

What ludicrous bullocks Campbell spouts. Not a huge fan of mixing religion and politics, but the bit about God voting leave is ludicrous. Campbell conveniently forgets that May campaigned for remain.

My thoughts are rather mixed.

I do not think she came even close to saying "God would have voted leave", indeed if he had not suggested that she came "to0 close" to doing so it would never have occurred to me.

Neither do I think that politicians can totally avoid mentioning their faith if it helps explain their position. As I recall Tony Blair was not averse to mentioning his faith, but it is true that most politicians steer clear of their faith.

That said, I think she is deluded if she believes she is leading a united country. Whatever the majority, a fair proportion of the population disagreed with the decision and the nations that form the UK have significantly different views. Clearly saying we need to be united is what a PM must do, but to claim we are united is taking it too far in my view.

gfplux

Just the start.
As the Brexiters would say, good riddance, what did they ever do for Britain
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-leaders-to-strip-britain-of-valued-european-medicine-and-banking-agencies-within-weeks-a7685811.html
According to The Observer, diplomats on the continent agreed at a gathering last week that the European Banking Authority and the European Medicines Agency are to be relocated from London to another city in the bloc.

noddynoo

Remainers who are hoping to rejoin the EU in its current or possibly reformed state in the future would do well not to talk this country down so much that it won't qualify. We are leaving now and should try and make the best of it so that the UK is a decent place to live in or out

A_Medium_Size_Jock

gfplux wrote: »

Just the start.
As the Brexiters would say, good riddance, what did they ever do for Britain
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-leaders-to-strip-britain-of-valued-european-medicine-and-banking-agencies-within-weeks-a7685811.html
According to The Observer, diplomats on the continent agreed at a gathering last week that the European Banking Authority and the European Medicines Agency are to be relocated from London to another city in the bloc.

To be quite frank I cannot for the life of me imagine why anyone would be surprised that EU agencies (of whatever type) would have a desire to be located within the EU.
As the UK has professed a desire to leave this supposedly august organisation, is it not therefore only to be expected that these organisations would relocate?
Oh hang on - of course; remainer doom and gloom.
Of course.

One point however?

Should the EU actually relocate such agencies very early on in the Brexit process (rather than arrange relocation upon exit from the EU) this may be interpreted as contrary to the EU's own guidelines ( particularly The Lisbon Treaty) and thus in effect equate to an early departure from any obligations the UK has with the EU.

Basically, the EU cannot say that the UK must fulfil EU obligations during the Brexit process if it does not apply the same obligations itself.
Remember?
The EU stance on trade talks being a prime example; we can talk BUT not sign trade agreements - and the EU aren't even happy about talking.

What's good for the goose & all that.
But as I have said before; the EU don't exactly do "fair".

A_Medium_Size_Jock

BobQ wrote: »

My thoughts are rather mixed.

I do not think she came even close to saying "God would have voted leave", indeed if he had not suggested that she came "to0 close" to doing so it would never have occurred to me.

Neither do I think that politicians can totally avoid mentioning their faith if it helps explain their position. As I recall Tony Blair was not averse to mentioning his faith, but it is true that most politicians steer clear of their faith.

That said, I think she is deluded if she believes she is leading a united country. Whatever the majority, a fair proportion of the population disagreed with the decision and the nations that form the UK have significantly different views. Clearly saying we need to be united is what a PM must do, but to claim we are united is taking it too far in my view.

Agreed until the last paragraph.

I do not see May as professing to lead a united country.
On the contrary, I see this as an acknowledgement of the very deep rifts within the country at the present time and also of the proportion of the population disagreeing, as you allude to.

Thus I see the speech as an acknowledgement as said above and a request for tolerance and acceptance.

Alastair Campbell TBH ........... no, I will not stoop.
Suffice to say that his biases have long been known.

BobQ

noddynoo wrote: »

Remainers who are hoping to rejoin the EU in its current or possibly reformed state in the future would do well not to talk this country down so much that it won't qualify. We are leaving now and should try and make the best of it so that the UK is a decent place to live in or out

Examples and explanation of "talking down" please?