If we vote for Brexit what happens

vivatifosi

kabayiri wrote: »

It is down to government policy to attract specific groups IMO, whether it be international students or midwives.

Canada provides an interesting example. They built up a strong reputation in the burgeoning software games industry from relatively nothing by attracting workers from overseas.

It would be down to us to attract students. I've just come back from Cambridge and it pretty clear where the large numbers of students are coming from. The focus is definitely moving to the East.

I did my Masters at Warwick in the early 2000s. My tutor said at the time that it would have been possible to fill their entire intake from China. However this is not necessarily desirable. I think then some unis opened campuses there.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

davomcdave wrote: »

If you have a vote that basically boils down to getting rid of the bloody foreigners then don't be surprised if the bloody foreigners think you don't want them around.

How big was the rise in racist incidents after the vote again? 40% or something from memory.

You really, really need to read the post above yours & enclosed link.

As before and despite your assertions, the "vote" was about much more diverse and far-reaching decisions than migration alone for most of us.

Regarding your "racist incidents" you may like to read:
http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/hatecrimethefactsbehindtheheadlines.pdf

Also you may like to consider the supposed UK incidence rate compared to (for example) Germany or Sweden?
And tell us how we compare?

BobQ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The treaty doesn't get passed by QMV though. Instead by Sovereign States and in the case of Belgium separate regional Governments. The UK team represents the UK that's the bottom line. If there's irreconcilable differences of opinion. Then the UK exits without agreement on that topic.

Are you sure?

A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2016/577971/EPRS_BRI(2016)577971_EN.pdf

ETA
This may be the point you were making. The consequences of a withdrawal agreement being agreed by QMV need to be implemented in the Treaty but that is not our problem unless we want them to make changes that benefit UK (such as a trade deal or continuing membership of specific parts of the EU.

BobQ

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Just as an aid to those of us truly puzzled by the sometimes obsessively negative nature of pro-remain posts in these forums and elsewhere:

Europhiles long dismissed Euroscepticism as an ideology that was the reserve of a few obsessive fruitcakes. Well, this proclivity for blaming Brexit for anything and everything is a sign of obsession born from a zealous ideology, pure and simple. The ultra-Remainers doing this need to come to their senses and ditch the tunnel vision, otherwise they will find themselves discredited when they have something worthwhile to say.

https://reaction.life/brexit-hating-ultra-remainers-making-fools/

Take note Moby et al.

Interesting quote but the problem is that most of the hard Brexit supporters have dismissed all who voted Remain (not just ultra remainers) from day one as those unentitled to an opinion at all.

davomcdave

BobQ wrote: »

Interesting quote but the problem is that most of the hard Brexit supporters have dismissed all who voted Remain (not just ultra remainers) from day one as those unentitled to an opinion at all.

Brexit means Brexit despite a 2:1 majority agreeing with remaining in the EEC in 1975.

What is sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

BobQ wrote: »

Interesting quote but the problem is that most of the hard Brexit supporters have dismissed all who voted Remain (not just ultra remainers) from day one as those unentitled to an opinion at all.

How many are what you describe as "hard Brexit supporters" though and out of those, what number would you attribute to "most"?

Because I see most (not all, please note) Brexit supporters as logical and generally reliant upon facts and figures as a basis for their beliefs.
Myself included in that group.
I repeatedly say that I do not expect the process to be without difficulties and I'm fairly sure that some of these will be major.
Just as I accept that some of the consequences of Brexit will be positive.

Whereas in this thread particularly, some remain supporters exhibit exactly the type of behaviour commented-upon in the link I included.
Why can these not accept that there will be some positive and some negative consequences?

I remember the days before we voted to isolate ourselves from the world in June 2016, the weather in Britain was positively Mediterranean most of the time. How we frolicked in the parks, basking in the sun in those happier times before we cut ourselves off from Europe and turned into a hate filled land of misery. In Brexit Britain, you have to get your tan out of a tube; that’s how low we’ve sunk.
The sun ain’t gonna shine anymore. The moon ain’t gonna rise in the sky.

Given that this is the type of response seen so often from pro-remain advocates here, is there really any wonder that they would then see themselves as "those unentitled to an opinion at all"?

Perhaps if the debate was centred more around fact than fear; around open-minded debate rather than blinkered denial, such avid pro-remainers would find themselves more accepted as having genuine valid concerns.

Just as in the Brexit negotiations to come, there must be some "give and take" no matter what your original opinion and bias.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

davomcdave wrote: »

Brexit means Brexit despite a 2:1 majority agreeing with remaining in the EEC in 1975.

What is sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander.

From 1975 to 2016 is how long, please?
Has the world and indeed both the UK the EU not changed in that time?

In 2016 a voting majority supported Brexit.
In other words the UK voted to tell the EU "Don't do unto others what you would not wish to be done to you."
Which is almost inevitably what you would expect to happen when you show that you refuse requests to reform and instead use threat.
No-one likes a bully - and the EU demonstrated remarkable proclivity for bullying tendencies.

TrickyTree83

davomcdave wrote: »

If you have a vote that basically boils down to getting rid of the bloody foreigners then don't be surprised if the bloody foreigners think you don't want them around.

How big was the rise in racist incidents after the vote again? 40% or something from memory.

17m people didn't suddenly turn racist or xenophobic. And no large group has asked for deportations. These appear to be stories from those opposed to leave voters.

The "rise" in hate crime could be down to many things it doesn't mean more people decided it was ok to be that way at all. You cannot draw those conclusions. Not can you panic at a 40% figure if that's true.

40% of 10 is 4.

40% of 1,000,000 is 400,000.

The actual numbers matter.

These stories are perpetuated by people who want to portray the vote to leave as in league with people who hold commonly unacceptable views, presumably to infer that wanting to leave the EU is also an unacceptable view to hold. It's not, and we are not racist or xenophobic.

Arklight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Well unlike you Jock isn't worried by the scare stories.
He prefers hard fact.
And he knows just who IS sitting next to him in lectures.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/great-brexit-exodus-eu-students-isnt-cracked/




Official figures (though these are always VERY late):
https://institutions.ukcisa.org.uk/Info-for-universities-colleges--schools/Policy-research--statistics/Research--statistics/International-students-in-UK-HE/


BTW did you read your link?
"The report, from UK-based market research agency Red Brick Research, surveyed 219 international students currently studying at UK universities."
219?
Really?
Wow, beyond any doubt conclusive then.

Good grief, you're so funny. You just don't read anything you link to in enough depth to understand it, do you?

Firstly "international students" are defined as those residing outside the EU.

Secondly, from your own HESA link

But all this shows – and without doubt as a direct result of visa restrictions – the picture for the whole of the UK HE sector is far from rosy and certainly not the time for the government to consider the sort of further measures suggested in October by the Home Secretary’

mrginge

BobQ wrote: »

Interesting quote but the problem is that most of the hard Brexit supporters have dismissed all who voted Remain (not just ultra remainers) from day one as those unentitled to an opinion at all.

Another one to add to the list of things you've completely made up.