If we vote for Brexit what happens

gfplux

kabayiri wrote: »

I am pretty confident that the Germans will be fine. As it stands, the whole EU thing works pretty well for them.

It's how concerned they are for those weaker states which may be impacted more by Brexit.

My wife who watches the French news every evening says the French also appear uninterested in Brexit with it hardly getting a mention.

gfplux

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Unfortunately under EU rules state aid is not permitted.

The British Government have certainly lost the habit.

vivatifosi

I've started reading "The Road To Somewhere, The populist revolt and the future of politics" by David Goodhart and it is truly excellent.

He describes the Brexit vote as "decent populism", far removed from fascism. He finds that there are three broad groups of people in the UK. The largest group he calls "somewheres" most of whom voted leave. Somewheres account for c50% of the population. A further 25% of the population he calls "anywheres", internationalist minded individuals who are comfortable moving around the world. Most politicians for the past 30 years, plus key figures in the elite, such as BBC heads and senior civil servants, also share this world view. A further twenty five per cent he describes as "inbetweeners", showing shades of both.

One interesting point describes someone from the anyone camp waking up the morning after Brexit and feeling that they did not recognise the country that they were living in. He contrasted this with those who voted Brexit because they no longer recognised the country that they were living in.

And that's just a summary of the first chapter and leaves lots out. My point being... well worth a read.

Wednesday2000

gfplux wrote: »

My wife who watches the French news every evening says the French also appear uninterested in Brexit with it hardly getting a mention.

I know someone who lives in France and she said the same.

vivatifosi wrote: »

I've started reading "The Road To Somewhere, The populist revolt and the future of politics" by David Goodhart and it is truly excellent.

He describes the Brexit vote as "decent populism", far removed from fascism. He finds that there are three broad groups of people in the UK. The largest group he calls "somewheres" most of whom voted leave. Somewheres account for c50% of the population. A further 25% of the population he calls "anywheres", internationalist minded individuals who are comfortable moving around the world. Most politicians for the past 30 years, plus key figures in the elite, such as BBC heads and senior civil servants, also share this world view. A further twenty five per cent he describes as "inbetweeners", showing shades of both.

One interesting point describes someone from the anyone camp waking up the morning after Brexit and feeling that they did not recognise the country that they were living in. He contrasted this with those who voted Brexit because they no longer recognised the country that they were living in.

And that's just a summary of the first chapter and leaves lots out. My point being... well worth a read.

Yes, I read that the other day. It was really spot on. I would say I am an Inbetweener, but I share a lot of values with Anywheres and I have been to uni and have grown up in London. It also made me feel guilty as I have said some of the patronising things that other Remainers have said.:o It made me feel like I understood more what some Leave voters thought and why they voted in the way they did.

wotsthat

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Which merely reinforces the view that a one size doesn't fit all. Simply too many differing opinions. Being ruled from afar by unelected politicians doesn't work and never will. If you were a net beneficiary from any source you are not going to vote for anything which reduces your income. That's human nature. Money comes first.

Until you let us know what the perfect system of government is then we're stuck with having to make compromises and being grown up enough to realise we can't get our own way all of the time.

One size has never fitted all and people have always been self-interested. It's a statement of the bleeding obvious and of very little value.

padington

Joeskeppi wrote: »

To be fair I'm not over this. I'm over the result. I voted remain and we are leave, I don't think my life will change much.

But I'm still really struggling with "the right to vote". I doubt even 1% of the population were actually qualified to have a sensible opinion on the referendum. I've said this a few times but democracy terrifies me. People who voted leave and remain did so for reasons that simply aren't relevant. Same applies to general election, why let people who have no idea have a say?

It's like a brain surgeon putting out a vote to ask which bit of brain to hack at. We're not qualified to have an opinion on it.

This always ends up with "there's no better option." there must be something, some kind of multiple choice quiz on the polling card or is something. I dunno

This problem has come up many times before hence the evolution towards a representative democracy. We vote for wise people who we believe have our interests at heart and they worry about the complicated paths to get us where we want to get to. The notion that when the landscape gets really complicated, we start asking the butchers dog, tea bags or the unemployed in Hull for directions is a dereliction of duty.

Equally politicians a should not be deciding on the small details within drugs policy etc, medical experts should be given budgets and allowed to form rules from their better experience.

Tromking

padington wrote: »

This problem has come up many times before hence the evolution towards a representative democracy. We vote for wise people who we believe have our interests at heart and they worry about the complicated paths to get us where we want to get to. The notion that when the landscape gets really complicated, we start asking the butchers dog, tea bags or the unemployed in Hull for directions is a dereliction of duty.

Equally politicians a should not be deciding on the small details within drugs policy etc, medical experts should be given budgets and allowed to form rules from their better experience.

I agree. referenda should be used very sparingly.
Those idiots that voted us into the EEC in the 70`s need shooting.

Conrad

padington wrote: »

This problem has come up many times before hence the evolution towards a representative democracy. We vote for wise people who we believe have our interests at heart and they worry about the complicated paths to get us where we want to get to. The notion that when the landscape gets really complicated, we start asking the butchers dog, tea bags or the unemployed in Hull for directions is a dereliction of duty.

Equally politicians a should not be deciding on the small details within drugs policy etc, medical experts should be given budgets and allowed to form rules from their better experience.

The flip side of this is that elites tend to become detached and as such the occasional referendum is a useful pressure valve to restore balance between citizens and politicians.


I find many politicians are extraordinarily inept and possess no expertise whatsoever on any number of areas of Human endeavour. A bit like Journalists they are generalists know-nothings. This can often apply to people working within organs of State too. One of a gazillion examples was where not a single 'expert' within Whitehall or the MOD thought to supply troops in Iraq 1 with warm clothing for the frozen nigh time temperatures.


If you have a particular area of expertise yourself, and then you hear some wet Politician blathering on about this domain as it happens to be on their radar that week, you realise just how lacking they are.


Many went straight from Uni into Politics, why on Earth would then have any particular insights or expertise?


No surprise then that 86% voted Remain - they would not have fully considered both sides, they were just voting for political familiarity but now many of these are wholehearted Leavers - without the jolt of public input via a referendum they would never have had this new insight

wotsthat

Conrad wrote: »

The flip side of this is that elites tend to become detached and as such the occasional referendum is a useful pressure valve to restore balance between citizens and politicians.

I find many politicians are extraordinarily inept and possess no expertise whatsoever on any number of areas of Human endeavour. A bit like Journalists they are generalists know-nothings. This can often apply to people working within organs of State too. One of a gazillion examples was where not a single 'expert' within Whitehall or the MOD thought to supply troops in Iraq 1 with warm clothing for the frozen nigh time temperatures.

If you have a particular area of expertise yourself, and then you hear some wet Politician blathering on about this domain as it happens to be on their radar that week, you realise just how lacking they are.

Many went straight from Uni into Politics, why on Earth would then have any particular insights or expertise?

No surprise then that 86% voted Remain - they would not have fully considered both sides, they were just voting for political familiarity but now many of these are wholehearted Leavers - without the jolt of public input via a referendum they would never have had this new insight

You're trying to sell Brexit as a glorious representation of the will of the people whilst suggesting the people keep voting for inept imbeciles.

Why did people get is so right when it came to Brexit but keep getting it so wrong when it comes to choosing our representatives?

Conrad

wotsthat wrote: »

You're trying to sell Brexit as a glorious representation of the will of the people whilst suggesting the people keep voting for inept imbeciles.

Why did people get is so right when it came to Brexit but keep getting it so wrong when it comes to choosing our representatives?

I do find plenty of MP's inept when it comes to specific domains they know nothing of and yet pontificate on in grand tones.


I see no reason that many of them poses any expertise when it comes to the benefits or otherwise of the EU.


Listening to Leanne Wood the other night, utterly clueless, thinks Wales is incapable of farming unless managed by the mighty EU, it's just so short-sighted and backwards looking.


Underpinning her whole outlook is this notion we British are lame jellyfish on a tide of indifference that wont rise to the challenges, that somehow we fail unless the benevolent hand of Brussels steers the tiller.


Thank goodness the common sense public were involved in the decision to remain or leave.