If we vote for Brexit what happens

Rinoa

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Switzerland is a member of the Schengen area and has open borders with the rest of the EU.

Indeed they do.

However, the Swiss voted for curbs on EU immigration in 2014 and draft legislation was released 2 days ago.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-swiss-eu-idUKKCN0W61I1

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Rinoa wrote: »

the Swiss voted for curbs on EU immigration in 2014

They sort of did (more on that below), albeit by the tiniest of margins, but this does present the Swiss with an interesting conundrum...

most of the Swiss that approved the proposal by and large come from the much less prosperous central, rural and mountainous parts of the country.

These are parts of the country that receive large subsidies from the federal budget and from the financial contributions coming from the six richest cantons, while in contrast the parts of the country that voted against the proposal happen to be net contributors to this budget.

This creates a terribly paradoxical situation whereby the parts of Switzerland that create jobs, economic growth and wealth thanks to its openness to the external world is being penalized by those parts of the country that depend on them for their economic survival.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2014/02/25-open-borders-europe-old-lady-nyon-kirisci-genier

draft legislation was released 2 days ago.

Yes.

That legislation gives the power to a board to decide an upper limit above which quotas would be established.

However it does not set the limits.

In practical terms, rather than risk destroying the Swiss economy by dismantling the EU treaties they've signed up to, they'll likely just set the limit so high it never kicks in.

michaels

leveller2911 wrote: »

Part of the problem is we are refusing entry to many skilled migrants from around the world to try and keep immigration numbers down whilst at the same time having no power whatsoever to assess the calibre of the people coming from the EU.

Strangely those in favour of remain will respond to this by calling you an ignorant, racist little Englander rather than actually debating the issue

Sapphire

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

As of 2015 the Bundeswehr has a strength of roughly 178,000 active troops, placing it among the 30 largest military forces in the world and making it the second largest in the European Union behind France in terms of personnel. In addition the Bundeswehr has approximately 40,000 reserve personnel.

Germany doesn't need our troops to "replace the Wehrmacht"...

They have more than enough of their own.

Well, that's alarming enough in itself if what you have learnt from Wikipedia is true – I didn't realise it had been permitted to build up an army again. However, as far as I know, Germany does not have nuclear weapons, thank God.

A Leopard doesn't change its spots – as certain eastern European countries have learnt to their cost over two centuries – and there are such things as national characteristics, beautifully exemplified in recent times by the undemocratic Frau Merkel, for example.

I know that those who have a short-term vested interest in population increase at any cost, due to having invested in buy to lets, for example, will opt for remaining in the EU whatever this means for future generations, but for me the issue of national sovereignty for all the nations in Europe is far more important. This is being compromised by the 'ever greater political union' project brought in by stealth largely by Germany without proper consultation or clarification with the populations of European countries, and certainly with no vote by them. An organisation functioning purely for trade purposes was a good idea, but one that tries to enforce laws and political ideologies on those that do not want them is a very bad one. It's as bad as trying to impose a common currency on countries that clearly have very different economies, for obvious reasons that should have been easy to predict by all the supposedly highly experienced economists that helped to bring it about. This action is going to have severe repercussions on mainland Europe in the future, and we will be better off out of the EU before they occur.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

michaels wrote: »

Strangely those in favour of remain will respond to this by calling you an ignorant, racist little Englander rather than actually debating the issue

Hmm........

Sapphire wrote: »

Well, that's alarming enough in itself if what you have learnt from Wikipedia is true – however, as far as I know, Germany does not have nuclear weapons, thank God.

A Leopard doesn't change its spots – as certain eastern European countries have learnt to their cost over two centuries – and there are such things as national characteristics, beautifully exemplified in recent times by the undemocratic Frau Merkel, for example.

It'd probably be easier not to call out people for having such a 'Little Englander' mentality if they didn't display such a 'Little Englander' mentality.

BobQ

setmefree2 wrote: »

Of course - they're all lying.

The problem with those in favour of Brexit is that you cannot argue against the UKIP line, which based on the notion of fuelling a belief that immigrants are the root of all that wrong with the UK and that the EU is the cause of immigration.

Those investing in the UK to develop their UK market will not care, but those seeking a EU base will chose the EU over the offshore nation outside of the EU. Firms based here who sell mostly to the UK will not care but those who are here because we are in the EU will take that into account in their forward plans. It will not happen overnight but it will happen unless we have more to offer.

One question I have is how many of those opposed to remaining would take this view if they thought it meant us not being in the EEA?

Tromking

The UK has the most powerful Military in the EU. I`m not sure Germany`s artificially large military owing primarily to conscription would mean that the potential loss to any planned EU force of the UK would not be felt keenly.

BobQ

Tromking wrote: »

Good to see Gove flagging up the burgeoning fascism problem in mainland Europe this morning. Perhaps detaching ourselves politically from a reactionary continent like Europe is for the best.

Project Fear is alive and well in the Brexit camp I see. It is probably only our FPTH electoral system that is suppressing those same tendencies in the UK

wotsthat

kabayiri wrote: »

But if media pundits (who the vast majority of voters do hear) drag the referendum into negative territory then I think it's a dubious tactic for Team Remain.

I agree and suspect the leave campaign do as well so will do their best to make out remain are running a negative campaign whether it's true or not.

Only a couple of weeks since the date was announced and already 'project fear' has been adopted as part of the language of the referendum. It's a good tactic.

I'm sick of it already. I don't know what the BBC reported as news before this started - they seem absolutely obsessed with it.

BobQ

leveller2911 wrote: »

I didn't think it would be long before the Pro EU lobby play the Joker card and accuse anyone who doesn't agree with them as being a bigot.

Thats quite a pathetic post smf.;)

If we leave we are free to sign our own trade deals around the world

The world smf is a huge place and we would have access to all of the markets around the world.

The irony is people like you see Brexit voters as insular little Englanders when in fact its the Pro EU lobby who are insular and fail to go out into the world and trade and feel somehow "safe" in the that small area of the globe called the EU.

Just reading your posts I do think you need to have break away from the keyboard, maybe a nice cup of tea and a walk in the garden?.

I enjoy being a European but ashamed to be an EU citizen but hopefully not for much longer.

Of course we will have access to the world but the issue is not that but the terms of that trade. Why are so many other nations in or setting up trade agreements with the EU and why would be be able to get any better terms than a similar sized nation.