If we vote for Brexit what happens

whatmichaelsays

StevieJ wrote: »

Love this one, the idea is probably a non-starter but I love the Brexiteer reaction.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-freedom-of-movement-passport-how-to-keep-parliament-live-move-abroad-a7405196.html

Jayne Adye's response really does the Brexit cause no favours in trying to get that "unity" that she so desperately craves. It just smacks of the "I can't have it so neither can you" crabs-in-the-bucket mentality.

Constantly yelling "you lost, we won, get over it" really doesn't address the concerns that roughly half of the country has and really isn't going to win them over to your cause.

CKhalvashi

Tromking wrote: »

The irony is that if the EU had offered free movement for UK citizens with the ability for the UK to block EU inward migration to Cameron, we`d still be in the EU.

We had the right to do it, and why Cameron didn't invoke it is beyond me.

CKhalvashi

whatmichaelsays wrote: »

Jayne Adye's response really does the Brexit cause no favours in trying to get that "unity" that she so desperately craves. It just smacks of the "I can't have it so neither can you" crabs-in-the-bucket mentality.

Constantly yelling "you lost, we won, get over it" really doesn't address the concerns that roughly half of the country has and really isn't going to win them over to your cause.

We need to look at reuniting the country, while other countries work to do the same.

General concensus here is that we are working towards a younger generation of politician in the next 10 years with further globalisation and slimmed down militaries etc.

Whether the UK will follow that waits to be seen, however it's a move that I'd welcome.

CLAPTON

CKhalvashi wrote: »

We need to look at reuniting the country, while other countries work to do the same.

General concensus here is that we are working towards a younger generation of politician in the next 10 years with further globalisation and slimmed down militaries etc.

Whether the UK will follow that waits to be seen, however it's a move that I'd welcome.

if we slim down militaries, we will probably have the opportunity to see whether 70 year peace in Europe, has been the result of the EU or the 2 million US troops

One hopes it was the presence of the EU

GreatApe

CLAPTON wrote: »

if we slim down militaries, we will probably have the opportunity to see whether 70 year peace in Europe, has been the result of the EU or the 2 million US troops

One hopes it was the presence of the EU

imo there are two main reasons for peace in the advanced modern world today. one is that the economic value and necessity for additional land has largely gone away the other is democracy as a means for the people/groups for ambition of power to take it without having to resort to armies and killings and wars.

CKhalvashi

CLAPTON wrote: »

if we slim down militaries, we will probably have the opportunity to see whether 70 year peace in Europe, has been the result of the EU or the 2 million US troops

One hopes it was the presence of the EU

I think it was in part a little of both, perhaps more the EU in Europe, and militaries generally, paired with various spheres of influence.

The bottom line is that whatever happens, we're heading into a globalised world, and it'll be interesting to say whether the younger generations (mainly those in their teens/20s) that have become a lot more politically aware this year are standing in the next election etc, and who they're voting for.

I could see 10 years knocked off the age of our average MP next time around, and again, whether this will happen internationally waits to be seen. I'm significantly older than Mhairi Black (but significantly younger than the average MP), but have to say I completely agree with her views on Trident etc. This seems to be common in younger voters.

If Trump, Farage etc (both of whom I personally dislike, although I'm not a May/Hillary fan either) give us nothing else, maybe they'll give us this good in the long term.

Moby

Masomnia wrote: »

My left wing friends, as in the actual left wing types, as opposed to your 'sixth form Ed Miliband socialist' types, were all pro leave.

The EU is very corporatist, promotes free trade deals that break down regulation, bans nationalising industry, has a pro-privatisation competition law regime, imposes austerity on countries like Greece. If there's a left wing case for staying in the EU I'd love to hear it!

It's why I still can't understand why Toastie is so pro-EU since it stands for everything he stands against, and you can't vote out the people who set the agenda.

Nigel Farage, Donald Trump and Marine Le Pen would agree with much of your rationale..........the EU is some of the things you describe some of the time but that depends on who people vote for. The EU has also established huge gains for workers rights through the Working Time Directive. In any event corporatism and austerity have been part of our internal national politics for years. Those policies were not imposed on us by Brussels! Its also deluded to believe there is a left wing case for being a Brexiteer. Modern socialism is an internationalist based philosophy. Its outward looking and believes in freedom of movement. You cannot get away from the fact that the referendum was highjacked by the issue of immigration. Both Brexit and the American election were victories energised by a backlash from the disenfranchised uneducated white working classes, especially men. Look at the exit poll results.

cogito

Moby wrote: »

Both Brexit and the American election were victories energised by a backlash from the disenfranchised uneducated white working classes, especially men. Look at the exit poll results.

Yes, let's do that shall we.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/white-voters-victory-donald-trump-exit-polls

It would appear that it was actually the wealthy and well educated who made all the difference. The uneducated white working classes would vote for a bacon slicer if it was the Republican candidate.

antrobus

Moby wrote: »

...Those policies were not imposed on us by Brussels!...

Go tell that to the Greeks. Just as well we had an opt out from the Euro.

Moby wrote: »

....Its also deluded to believe there is a left wing case for being a Brexiteer. ....

I see that you have quite forgotten that the Labour Party was once commited to Brexit. There was a time when all proper lefties were rejected the 'capitalist club'. The fact that the Labour Party has decided to abandon that idea, hasn't stopped other people from expounding the "left wing case for being a Brexiteer". Why, there was even a Left Leave campaign (aka Lexit) at the time of the referendum.

Delusion takes many forms.

Moby wrote: »

...Modern socialism is an internationalist based philosophy. Its outward looking and believes in freedom of movement. ...

Socialism has always claimed to be an "internationalist based philosophy". (And wouldn't free trade and globalisation be an internationalist based philosophy?) As far as 'freedom of movement' is concerned; in practice socialist nations have not tended to be that keen on it.

Moby wrote: »

..You cannot get away from the fact that the referendum was highjacked by the issue of immigration. Both Brexit and the American election were victories energised by a backlash from the disenfranchised uneducated white working classes, especially men. Look at the exit poll results.

It's always a disappointment when the working class don't follow orders isn't it?

antrobus

cogito wrote: »

Brussels can say what it wants. Doesn't mean it's going to happen.

There are two ways of getting round FoM. First is a hard brexit where we simply walk away. Second is membership of the EEA where Article 112 of the EEA Agreement specifically allows restrictions of movement where the member country deems it necessary for various reasons. This is a point which has escaped some posters on here who have blindly stated that being in the EEA means having to accept FoM.

Leichtenstein has invoked this article more than once and if a minnow like Leichtenstein can do it, so can we.

The UK is already part of the EEA. The UK can already take advantage of Article 112 of the EEA Agreement. If it's a way of "getting round FoM", why haven't we already used it?

This is a point which has escaped some posters on here.:)