If we vote for Brexit what happens

A_Medium_Size_Jock

gfplux wrote: »

Hello Tromking,
I think you don't see what is in front of your eyes.
I see Brexit as a lurch to the right just like the result in USA.
You talk of the rise of the right in Europe as if that is different. I don't see much difference.
Politiciens who win referendums/elections or campaign talking about immigrants and foreigners seem all the same to me.

Whereas I see Brexit as a strong public vote against the establishment.

The signs were already there in 2014 when UKIP won so many of the European elections.
Sadly the government took too little notice of WHY UKIP did so well and continued on their merry way, with Dave's jolly around Europe and his spectacular failure to provide meaningful reassurance of the EU's intent to reform finalising for many the feeling of distrust in both our own politicians AND those of the EU.
The result being Brexit.

Not so different to the views of many French or Dutch, though using France as an example Marine may do well as she and the Front National are anti-EU.
NOT because they are right-wing; purely because they are the only major anti-EU party.

As has happened in the USA too; a revolt against established politics rather than a "lurch to the right" per se, IMHO.

mrginge

gfplux wrote: »

The problem is Tromking they are marching up and down your local British High Street.

They really aren't you know.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Hello Tromking,
I think you don't see what is in front of your eyes.
I see Brexit as a lurch to the right just like the result in USA.
You talk of the rise of the right in Europe as if that is different. I don't see much difference.
Politiciens who win referendums/elections or campaign talking about immigrants and foreigners seem all the same to me.

Whereas I see Brexit as a strong public vote against the establishment.

The signs were already there in 2014 when UKIP won so many of the European elections.
Sadly the government took too little notice of WHY UKIP did so well and continued on their merry way, with Dave's jolly around Europe and his spectacular failure to provide meaningful reassurance of the EU's intent to reform finalising for many the feeling of distrust in both our own politicians AND those of the EU.
The result being Brexit.

Not so different to the views of many French or Dutch, though using France as an example Marine may do well as she and the Front National are anti-EU.
NOT because they are right-wing; purely because they are the only major anti-EU party.

As has happened in the USA too; a revolt against established politics rather than a "lurch to the right" per se, IMHO.

P.S.
The "foreigners/immigrants" as you call them that I know (and there are BTW quite a few) are mostly unconcerned and carrying on as before the referendum.


ETA - I have no idea why the whole post appears twice when I only added the piece regarding foreigners/immigrants.

cogito

Herzlos wrote: »

Except Brussels has already said that they want free movement of workers/individuals, not a quota. So best we'll get is free movement, provided a host/sponsor has a job offer, and within a week we'll have people sending out fake job offers :j

Brussels can say what it wants. Doesn't mean it's going to happen.

There are two ways of getting round FoM. First is a hard brexit where we simply walk away. Second is membership of the EEA where Article 112 of the EEA Agreement specifically allows restrictions of movement where the member country deems it necessary for various reasons. This is a point which has escaped some posters on here who have blindly stated that being in the EEA means having to accept FoM.

Leichtenstein has invoked this article more than once and if a minnow like Leichtenstein can do it, so can we.

prosaver

I know what, lets throw all our passports away. And have just have a EU passport .
And no voting rights just have hash tags on twitter to change laws.
And the person with the most friends on Facebook can start petitions.
Celebrities would superdeed some laws depending upon TV ratings and good looks.

Tromking

gfplux wrote: »

Hello Tromking,
I think you don't see what is in front of your eyes.
I see Brexit as a lurch to the right just like the result in USA.
You talk of the rise of the right in Europe as if that is different. I don't see much difference.
Politiciens who win referendums/elections or campaign talking about immigrants and foreigners seem all the same to me.

I don't know when you last came home gfpflux but far right party politics in the UK is where its always been, absolutely nowhere, that patently is not the case on the mainland.
Brexit was a non-party political alliance and for every right wing loon that spouted xenophobic bile there were many many more for which Brexit was for them something completely different and not in any way extreme.
I myself am a left leaning local Union Official in a front line public service and although I admit to being on the socially conservative side, I have no time for or indeed inclination to be seen as in cahoots with fascists.
I`m well aware of how Brexit is being reported in some parts and no doubt in your neck of the woods (EU Central!) it is in the interests of the EU Blob to describe this as a "lurch to the right".
The UK is intrinsically same as it was before the referendum, a western, liberal, culturally diverse and vibrant democracy that is at the forefront of advancing the human condition.
Don`t believe the remainiac hype.

mrginge

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Whereas I see Brexit as a strong public vote against the establishment.

The signs were already there in 2014 when UKIP won so many of the European elections.
Sadly the government took too little notice of WHY UKIP did so well and continued on their merry way, with Dave's jolly around Europe and his spectacular failure to provide meaningful reassurance of the EU's intent to reform finalising for many the feeling of distrust in both our own politicians AND those of the EU.
The result being Brexit.

Not so different to the views of many French or Dutch, though using France as an example Marine may do well as she and the Front National are anti-EU.
NOT because they are right-wing; purely because they are the only major anti-EU party.

As has happened in the USA too; a revolt against established politics rather than a "lurch to the right" per se, IMHO.

While I have little respect for Cameron and his slimeball opportunistic tactics, the one good thing about his referendum is that it's forced the issues to be dealt with. At least we have a *reasonably* sensible parliament that isn't totally dominated by one group of hard right or left views.
The risk of doing nothing is that discontent increases and you end up with a govt that hasn't got a clue how to govern. See Scotland for example.
The risk now is that the US and possibly EU govts will go the same.

I don't fear a bit of political change, just like I don't fear economic recession. It's inevitable that political or economic pressure builds up slowly and then explodes into events like we see here and in the US. The longer the gap between these events the bigger the shock usually is.
Fortunately it's also inevitable that after the initial shock, we adapt, everyone gets on with things and we end up in a new equilibrium.

We've had our big people's revolt, the US has now had theirs. The question is, is it too late for France and Germany to avoid theirs?

StevieJ

Love this one, the idea is probably a non-starter but I love the Brexiteer reaction.

The European Parliament is to consider a plan that would allow British citizens to opt-in and keep their European Union citizenship – and its associated benefits – once the UK leaves the EU.

Jayne Adye, director of the Get Britain Out campaign described the proposal as divisive and said it was “totally unacceptable” for British people to retain the advantages of EU membership.
“This is an outrage. The EU is now attempting to divide the great British public at the exact moment we need unity. 17.4 million people voted to Leave the EU on 23 June and as a result the UK as a whole will get Brexit,” she said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-freedom-of-movement-passport-how-to-keep-parliament-live-move-abroad-a7405196.html

Tromking

StevieJ wrote: »

Love this one, the idea is probably a non-starter but I love the Brexiteer reaction.

The irony is that if the EU had offered free movement for UK citizens with the ability for the UK to block EU inward migration to Cameron, we`d still be in the EU.

Masomnia

Tromking wrote: »

I don't know when you last came home gfpflux but far right party politics in the UK is where its always been, absolutely nowhere, that patently is not the case on the mainland.
Brexit was a non-party political alliance and for every right wing loon that spouted xenophobic bile there were many many more for which Brexit was for them something completely different and not in any way extreme.
I myself am a left leaning local Union Official in a front line public service and although I admit to being on the socially conservative side, I have no time for or indeed inclination to be seen as in cahoots with fascists.
I`m well aware of how Brexit is being reported in some parts and no doubt in your neck of the woods (EU Central!) it is in the interests of the EU Blob to describe this as a "lurch to the right".
The UK is intrinsically same as it was before the referendum, a western, liberal, culturally diverse and vibrant democracy that is at the forefront of advancing the human condition.
Don`t believe the remainiac hype.

My left wing friends, as in the actual left wing types, as opposed to your 'sixth form Ed Miliband socialist' types, were all pro leave.

The EU is very corporatist, promotes free trade deals that break down regulation, bans nationalising industry, has a pro-privatisation competition law regime, imposes austerity on countries like Greece. If there's a left wing case for staying in the EU I'd love to hear it!

It's why I still can't understand why Toastie is so pro-EU since it stands for everything he stands against, and you can't vote out the people who set the agenda.