If we vote for Brexit what happens

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

The difference is that you can just apply for a job in, say, France and then rock up to work on Monday morning.

To apply for a job in Aus and be able to take up the position (as a Brit not requiring a language test and assuming a 457 visa which is most common for skilled migrants such as chefs and plumbers and brain surgeons and further assuming you, the missus and 2 kids are going) you will need to:

1. Find an employer willing to sponsor you (at a cost of AU$7780)
2. Find £1,320 application fee
3. Prove you are:

• A UK passport holder
• Completed 5 years of secondary education in English
• Provide criminal records for all countries you lived in for the last 10 years
• Provide proof of education
• Provide proof of skills attainment (this will be further tested at a later date)
• Provide required biometric infomation

4. Then you will need to take a medical and get health insurance and declare that you will not take recourse to public funds while in Australia. Nor may you change to a new profession under your existing 457 visa

If your aim is to keep skilled people out of the country then I guess that the 457 system is pretty good. If your aim is to provide a flexible skilled workforce then the system is appalling.

We get plenty of unskilled migrants. Get into any cab in Sydney and 80% of the time it will be driven by a man with a foreign accent and no obvious skills, not even the ability to drive!

In the short term (is there anything else) a free movement of people does indeed keep wage costs down, removes any incentive for improving productivity and reduce incentives for innovating new products.
One wonders which type of economy does best in the medium term.

Generali

mwpt wrote: »

Is the Australian way of life doing particularly poorly under such a repressive system?

(Note: friendly sarcasm)

LOL. I'm in a much better mood today despite our replacement nanny's BF calling in sick on her behalf on her first day 20 minutes after she was meant to be here and even then only after we texted her!

The 457 system does cause problems. The main ones are that it can be hard to promote good staff on a 457 if it means a change in employment status deemed to be substantial by some idiot civil servant that has no clue about your business.

Also, it's incredibly time consuming to get people over. In London if we needed people and a Frenchman or a Czech or whatever had the skills then we'd get them in. It takes an age to get a 457.

From a personal POV for the migrants a 457 causes a lot of uncertainty. In theory, if they're out of work for 30 days, despite the fact that they can't claim benefits and even have to pay full medical costs they should leave the country or go out to a rural area to do unskilled work for a bit as that gives them extra time on their visa (seriously it does!). The system is pretty roundly abused too, particularly by people looking to get friends and family over from the old country or so I'm told.

michaels

BobQ wrote: »

Yes I have noticed the lack of racial prejudice in our country too.



Probably not but I do not think that leaving the EU will help. You clearly think that the Conservatives will retain the employment protections inherent in EU law. You also think that the Conservatives will stop migration to drive up wages, no doubt based on the track record of Cameron in reducing non-EU migration.



Well fortunately Mr Brown held firm on that one. I would never favour joining the EURO. I remember the loan rates when Lawson took us into the ERM.

Aha - so I am against the EU because it is undemocratic in that our elected representatives do not set the law. You are in favour of the EU because it is undemocratic in that our elected representatives do not set the law. :T

Generali

michaels wrote: »

Aha - so I am against the EU because it is undemocratic in that our elected representatives do not set the law. You are in favour of the EU because it is undemocratic in that our elected representatives do not set the law. :T

The law courts are undemocratic but do a very good job of providing checks against the abuse of power by the executive branch of Government.

Just because something is democratic doesn't mean it's good and not all undemocratic things are bad.

The EU is a quasi democracy: its representatives and senior members are put up by democratically elected bodies. Plus of course there is the paper tiger that is the European Parliament.

To call the EU undemocratic is like calling the UK undemocratic because only a hundred thousand, give or take, get to vote for or against the PM.

dosh

Lord Lawson's Chatham House speech - The Case for Brexit

End of speech quote:

"I leave you with one last thought.

If we were not now a member of the European Union, would the British people vote to join it?

I believe the answer, emphatically, is ‘No’.

In which case it is clear that, whatever the short-term hassle, we should leave."

mayonnaise

Generali wrote: »

Exiting the EU would be a shame from a cultural POV. Plenty of friends when I was a student did a few months or a year at an EU university and I worked in France a couple of times in low paid jobs. It gave me an appreciation of a different viewpoint and of another way of life that has greatly enriched my life.

It would be shame indeed. Exiting the Erasmus Programme for example would be a huge setback for UK students to enjoy inter-university exchange and cooperation.
Of course I realize things like culture and education don't feature high on the brexiteers' radar.

CLAPTON

mayonnaise wrote: »

It would be shame indeed. Exiting the Erasmus Programme for example would be a huge setback for UK students to enjoy inter-university exchange and cooperation.
Of course I realize things like culture and education don't feature high on the brexiteers' radar.

The Erasmus programme of course is limited to the christian white countries of the EU : presumably non white, not christain peoples of the world , don't feature of the the 'stay ' group radar.

mwpt

dosh makes a good point though, with the quote from Lawson. I don't believe the British people would vote to join the EU at the moment if we were not already in. But then, that is short term thinking.

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

dosh makes a good point though, with the quote from Lawson. I don't believe the British people would vote to join the EU at the moment if we were not already in. But then, that is short term thinking.

some consider the decision not to join the Euro was short term thinking
only time might tell who was more right

kabayiri

Generali wrote: »

Exiting the EU would be a shame from a cultural POV. Plenty of friends when I was a student did a few months or a year at an EU university and I worked in France a couple of times in low paid jobs. It gave me an appreciation of a different viewpoint and of another way of life that has greatly enriched my life.

Culturally, if I want to experience an authentic Polish high street, I need only plan a visit to somewhere like Lincoln or Peterborough!

Seriously though, the 6th form colleges around here all offer enrichment trips, but they set their sights much wider. India and even China are on offer, if you can afford it. I reckon in a few years time people will be looking even further afield, to places like South America and the southern half of Africa.