If we vote for Brexit what happens

kabayiri

mwpt wrote: »

dosh makes a good point though, with the quote from Lawson. I don't believe the British people would vote to join the EU at the moment if we were not already in. But then, that is short term thinking.

Look at the direction of change too.

Would people vote to join the EU in 5 years time?

I'm not sure they would.

There is a real lack of strong leadership in the EU, and individual states are starting to drive the agenda themselves.

I realise I sound negative. Can any of the pro-EU people tell me why things will turn around in the next few years? When will they overcome the Euro difficulties, for example? Is that close or years/decades off?

mayonnaise

kabayiri wrote: »

Look at the direction of change too.

Would people vote to join the EU in 5 years time?

I'm not sure they would.

There is a real lack of strong leadership in the EU, and individual states are starting to drive the agenda themselves.

I realise I sound negative. Can any of the pro-EU people tell me why things will turn around in the next few years? When will they overcome the Euro difficulties, for example? Is that close or years/decades off?

There is no denying the EU and the Eurozone in particular are facing huge challenges in the near future.
That does not change the fact that it's plain stupid to exit the free trade area where half your exports go to.
We're out of the Euro, don't need to participate in Eurozone bailouts and we're not part of Schengen, i.e. the best of both worlds.

CLAPTON

mayonnaise wrote: »

There is no denying the EU and the Eurozone in particular are facing huge challenges in the near future.
That does not change the fact that it's plain stupid to exit the free trade area where half your exports go to.
We're out of the Euro, don't need to participate in Eurozone bailouts and we're not part of Schengen, i.e. the best of both worlds.

Typical narrow inward looking eurphile view.
All the members of the EU and the entire world economy, are already affected by the dysfunctional european economy and it's political system.
To pretend that the rise of razor wire fences, the massive european youth unemployment, the decline the the european relative world trade are the 'best of both worlds' truely shows the blinkered nature of much of the europhile position.
There are no reasons why countries should not continue to trade.
There will be only be a problem if a dysfunctional EU27 chooses to do deliberate harm to its own people (as it has already done to southern european countries).
Even more reason to leave and establish worldwide trading relations with all countries of goodwill including our ex EU partners.

Rinoa

mayonnaise wrote: »

That does not change the fact that it's plain stupid to exit the free trade area where half your exports go to.

Less than half (44%) and declining annually.

Down from 55% in 2000.

Sapphire

mayonnaise wrote: »

There is no denying the EU and the Eurozone in particular are facing huge challenges in the near future.
That does not change the fact that it's plain stupid to exit the free trade area where half your exports go to.
We're out of the Euro, don't need to participate in Eurozone bailouts and we're not part of Schengen, i.e. the best of both worlds.

The worst thing for me, however, is that we cannot control our own borders – there were something like 900,000 NIN registrations from immigrants from within and outside the EU last year! This is unsustainable, especially given that many of the immigrants that arrive here do so for handouts (without having paid anything in). This is at a time when the NHS and other parts of the infrastructure are collapsing, when there is not enough housing due to the massive influx of people, and when our old people are shamefully treated due to lack of resources. It may be the aim of big business for millions of migrants to be imported to relatively affluent countries, because they want to employ people as cheaply as possible, and many migrants will accept work for much less money than do indigenous Brits, for example. However, this is not in the interest of the majority of people of this country.

It is also plain stupid (and suicidal) to be part of an undemocratic outfit who no citizen actually voted for, which has no respect for us (despite the huge amounts of taxpayers' money we have contributed to it), and that has a megalomaniac ruler dictating to sovereign states left, right and centre what they should do.

Fine, we should have trade deals with countries around the world, but anything impinging on our sovereignty (Germany's hope, via 'ever closer political union') must be rejected.

As I've said before, the EU will collapse under the weight of its own stupidity before long (the Euro will fail, as Mervyn King has said, and the countries in the EU are too different from each other in terms of their national characters to work together harmoniously). We will be better off out of it before this happens, and before more taxpayers' money is demanded from us to try and fend off the day, causing further damage to our economy and infrastructure. I'm looking forward to it!

angrypirate

Rinoa wrote: »

Less than half (44%) and declining annually.

Down from 55% in 2000.

And that doesnt take into account the Rotterdam/Antwerp effect.

Rinoa

angrypirate wrote: »

And that doesnt take into account the Rotterdam/Antwerp effect.

Thanks. I had to google that.

mayonnaise

Sapphire wrote: »

This is unsustainable, especially given that many of the immigrants that arrive here do so for handouts (without having paid anything in). This is at a time when the NHS and other parts of the infrastructure are collapsing,

You blame immigration. Fact is the NHS is collapsing because of an aging population, exponential growth in the cost of medicine and treatments and an ever increasing obesity crisis among the native population.

Sapphire wrote: »

when there is not enough housing due to the massive influx of people,

You blame immigration. But one could argue the chronic lack of building we've seen during the last decade has had a much bigger impact.

Sapphire wrote: »

and when our old people are shamefully treated due to lack of resources.

Allocate more resources?

Sapphire wrote: »

It may be the aim of big business for millions of migrants to be imported to relatively affluent countries, because they want to employ people as cheaply as possible, and many migrants will accept work for much less money than do indigenous Brits, for example. However, this is not in the interest of the majority of people of this country.

So we're talking low paid workers here. How high should pay levels be set for these kind of jobs so that indigenous Brits will do them you think? Apple picking for £25 per hour? Cleaning for 50k per annum + company car?

Sapphire wrote: »

It is also plain stupid (and suicidal) to be part of an undemocratic outfit who no citizen actually voted for, which has no respect for us (despite the huge amounts of taxpayers' money we have contributed to it), and that has a megalomaniac ruler dictating to sovereign states left, right and centre what they should do.

Fine, we should have trade deals with countries around the world, but anything impinging on our sovereignty (Germany's hope, via 'ever closer political union') must be rejected.

You really need to get over your hate for Germany. The war has been over for a while now.

Sapphire wrote: »

As I've said before, the EU will collapse under the weight of its own stupidity before long (the Euro will fail, as Mervyn King has said, and the countries in the EU are too different from each other in terms of their national characters to work together harmoniously). We will be better off out of it before this happens, and before more taxpayers' money is demanded from us to try and fend off the day, causing further damage to our economy and infrastructure. I'm looking forward to it!

As I've said, the EU has huge challenges ahead. None survival of the Euro could be a consequence. Doesn't concern us as we're not included in bailout mechanisms.
At the mean time, it's still stupid to exit the free trade area where [STRIKE]half[/STRIKE] (okay, 'only' 44%) of your exports go to.

Therefore, I will be voting remain.

mrginge

mayonnaise wrote: »

There is no denying the EU and the Eurozone in particular are facing huge challenges in the near future.
That does not change the fact that it's plain stupid to exit the free trade area where half your exports go to.
We're out of the Euro, don't need to participate in Eurozone bailouts and we're not part of Schengen, i.e. the best of both worlds.

Erm. So what you're saying is that not being part of Schengen is the best option for avoiding all the immigration issues that we have despite not being part of Schengen.

Thanks for that.

kabayiri

mayonnaise wrote: »

There is no denying the EU and the Eurozone in particular are facing huge challenges in the near future.
...

There isn't a Western nation not facing huge challenges IMO, in the EU or not.

I still want to know why we should be confident they will be addressed, and I'm struggling to see it. Hasn't the unilateral invite to refugees from Germany harmed Greece for example? Where was/is the unified EU response to the ongoing refugee issue?

It isn't stupid to be outside the EU. There will be just different sets of winners and losers. I'm all for more skills based migration from the likes of India and China, for example, because it suits my selfish goals.