If we vote for Brexit what happens

mayonnaise

kabayiri wrote: »

I still want to know why we should be confident they will be addressed, and I'm struggling to see it. Hasn't the unilateral invite to refugees from Germany harmed Greece for example? Where was/is the unified EU response to the ongoing refugee issue?

I agree with you, the EU response to the refugee crisis has been shambolic.
But what does that have to do with Brexit? A refugee will have as little or as much right to come to the UK whether we are in the EU or not. Do you think they will stop camping in Calais after Brexit?(or in Kent after France unilaterally cancels the Sangatte Protocol )

kabayiri

It's not so much the refugee issue. It's a demonstration that the action of high profile member states actually drive EU policy. I'm not keen on being part of a club which becomes increasingly divided.

I guess what I'm looking for is evidence that the EU can evolve to a better organisation.

I'm actually a fan of Cameron's suggestion that the EU needs reform, but he is looking a bit isolated by the other members.

Rinoa

mayonnaise wrote: »

At the mean time, it's still stupid to exit the free trade area where [STRIKE]half[/STRIKE] (okay, 'only' 44%) of your exports go to.

A tad more accurate, but we still need to address the 'free trade' terminology.

When the EU exports £200Bn+ of stuff to us it's free trade.

But, before the UK exports £135Bn of stuff to the EU we first have to stump up £10Bn to be in the 'free trade' club.

Which is in effect an 8% import tariff.

So not exactly the 'free trade' utopia people think it is.

kabayiri

I'm not worried by the trade argument.

Trade will continue because business will demand it.

Do we really think big business from across Europe will be happy to see a collapse in one of the most important markets? I doubt it.

We buy German executive autos; but we could easily switch to a Korean or Japanese brand; they are getting better all the time and those companies would seize any opportunity to grab more UK market share.

angrypirate

Rinoa wrote: »

Thanks. I had to google that.

Its conveniently forgotten about by the BSErs. Taking the Rotterdam effect into account, its possible that true EU exports make up less than 40% of our economy. Massively less than the 55% pedalled by BSE.

Sapphire

On the issue of immigration, we are a relatively small country, and we cannot support huge numbers of immigrants from the likes of Romania and Bulgaria. We should only be allowing in people who are of economic benefit to Britain and its citizens, from around the world, not just Europe. There should certainly not be open borders for all and sundry (including criminals and organized gangs) to come in.

On the issue of jobs, I can remember a time when it was easy for anyone from the indigenous population to get a job. Now this is not the case, due at least to competition from migrants from various countries (and also to factors such as increasing 'improvements' in technology, which have resulted in businesses needing to employ ever fewer people, a factor that should be taken into consideration when looking at the future of coming generations).

When it comes to infrastructure, this requires ever greater amounts of money spent on it due primarily to immigration (the NHS, education, housing, etc.). To put the 'blame' on this on the elderly, who have enough to put up with, or the obese, as a fall-back 'argument' is quite disguising in my view. Where is the money for the extra infrastructure that is needed for the above to come from? How many more claimants from abroad who have not put anything into Britain (the generous benefits the UK provides are certainly a huge pull factor to such), will this country allow in before the infrastructure breaks down completely? Why are some people so blind about the bleak future that remaining in the EU poses for future generations?

And as I said before, my main concern is the complete lack of democracy demonstrated by the EU, which only came to light for me and no doubt many others last year. I am shocked by it, and amazed that some so-called 'liberal' people are accepting of it.

So I'm looking forward to a new, optimistic day without the shackles of the EU. It can't come soon enough for me.

dunstonh

I would just like some answers to the questions posed rather than mud slinging the person that stated their opinion or ignoring the issue altogether.

I will start by saying I am no fan of the EU in its current set up but I am likely to vote to remain as I see it as the lesser of two evils. This is mainly down to trade. Presently, the vote seems like a choice of your method of death. Yes, you die by gun, no you die by hanging. Neither has much appeal. However, I am still open to changing my position should some facts appear that are real facts and not silly rubbish we are currently seeing.

if we remain in the EU, we have a number of opt outs and we remain at the table to be involved in future decision making. So, that is plus point in staying.

if we leave the EU, we lose our opt outs. To regain access to the EU, we have to agree to EU rules. So leaving the EU will increase regulation in a number of areas. Also, if you look at Norway, they had to agree to free movement and be part of schengen even though they are not in the EU. That could be imposed on us.

I have to see anyone in the leave camp offer their opinion on that issue.

CLAPTON

dunstonh wrote: »

I would just like some answers to the questions posed rather than mud slinging the person that stated their opinion or ignoring the issue altogether.

I will start by saying I am no fan of the EU in its current set up but I am likely to vote to remain as I see it as the lesser of two evils. This is mainly down to trade. Presently, the vote seems like a choice of your method of death. Yes, you die by gun, no you die by hanging. Neither has much appeal. However, I am still open to changing my position should some facts appear that are real facts and not silly rubbish we are currently seeing.

if we remain in the EU, we have a number of opt outs and we remain at the table to be involved in future decision making. So, that is plus point in staying.

if we leave the EU, we lose our opt outs. To regain access to the EU, we have to agree to EU rules. So leaving the EU will increase regulation in a number of areas. Also, if you look at Norway, they had to agree to free movement and be part of schengen even though they are not in the EU. That could be imposed on us.

I have to see anyone in the leave camp offer their opinion on that issue.

The alternatives for trade with the EU are not between being part of the EU and the 'Norway' solution.
The other option is to trade with the EU, in the same way as we do with the other 168 countries in the world.
They do not have their laws made by the EU, they are not part of Schengen they do not pay a levy for the privilege of trade.
Both EU and the other 168 countries have to abide by whatever trade deals they make.
As probably 55-60% of our trade is with the 168 countries this hasn't been a practical obstacle.

Many people take the view that trade is mutual beneficial (if not why do it anyway): therefore there is no rational reason why trade should not continue with only minor modifications.

wotsthat

dunstonh wrote: »

if we leave the EU, we lose our opt outs. To regain access to the EU, we have to agree to EU rules. So leaving the EU will increase regulation in a number of areas. Also, if you look at Norway, they had to agree to free movement and be part of schengen even though they are not in the EU. That could be imposed on us.

Norway's small but we're big and important and, apparently, despite the low regard for the EU we can rely on them not to cut off their noses to spite their faces during any negotiations to leave.

cells

Main questions I would want to know would be

If we vote out what happens to the millions of EU families now in the UK and English families in Europe. A lot of them have been here for years a lot of them have had kids here and a lot of them are for all intents settled. Do they get deported if so how will that work and happen or do they get some sort of visa or citizenship?

If we vote out. Will there still be free movement within the EU and UK (this doesn't look likely as a lot of the no votes are not voting about Europe but immigration) what about free movement with their 'tier 1' EU countries and the UK eg Germany France Italy and keep the poorer east Europeans at bay?

I'm not so concerned about the trade arguments we would be OK either way. I am likely to vote stay if for no other reason than it being quite !!!! to expelled families that have been here for years and divided to make the move with the laws and systems in place not expecting to be expelled. I would be a lot more likely to consider a leave vote if it was cleared up what would happen to then and whatever that was was reasonably fair.